[production bible 2] Sub-bass

[kyle g]

fiziks wrote:
For pure subs I usually float around the 40-50 range. Give or take a few hz in either direction, but 40 seems to be the sweet spot for the lowest note. F0 in an exs24 with no instruments will get the lowest note I'm referring to. While the heart of the note is at 40, you get some residual sound on both sides of 40. So maybe it's like 36-43 (or possibly lower,

Also, with a sub, if you can hear it real well, it's way WAY too loud. If I'm mixing the drums and bass to -6 or so, I'll have the sub at around -16 to -18. Sub is the easiest thing to turn up too much since it's not that audible. Open up your analyzer and see where the sub is peaking. Make sure it's not spiking higher than everything else. Especially if you're using a straight sine because there aren't a lot of dynamics.


Yeah a lot of my stuff is in the key of F because you right that is def a sweet spot. But you can go much lower on a nice rig. I really dig that in tunes when they go super low it's just that you will never really "get" the tune untill you hear it on some nice subs. That can be a draw back but at the same time people will be going nuts for that tune when you get the chance to unleash it. Another thing with the F note. It depends on how your bass line goes like you may want to do the tune in the key of A flat and make that F the 7th. Or maybe B flat and the bring the F in as the root of your 5th chord as a couple examples. That is usually how I figure out what key I want to make the tune in.


On myphone and can't figure out how to quote that. But I wanted to ask if you could explain the whole choosing your key thing and what notes you use once you've decided on a key. Haven't really got my head around that yet, I know, well think I know that the first third and fifth notes in a s ale is the chord with in that scale, e.g a minor - a c and e, so would my sub need to be a low A? And can I use any of the other notes with in the scale through out the song while staying in that key for the song. I k ow these questions probably don't make much sense but some info or guidance on this general topic would be much appreciated. And I know really there aren't rules with this kinda stuff but assuming while I'm learning about writing music I want to stick to these scales and guidelines for which notes work together.

Also with reference to the 808 being used as a sub, I use logic, I tried editing the sample with the sample editor, so to just cut out the middle of the sample(1cycle) and then loop it, but when I bounce it to audio n chuck it in the exs24, when I hold down the key, the sample will cut out after maybe a second, what can I do so that this note just continues or loops until I release the key.

Any help much appreciated!

[stappard]

On myphone and can't figure out how to quote that. But I wanted to ask if you could explain the whole choosing your key thing and what notes you use once you've decided on a key. Haven't really got my head around that yet, I know, well think I know that the first third and fifth notes in a s ale is the chord with in that scale, e.g a minor - a c and e, so would my sub need to be a low A? And can I use any of the other notes with in the scale through out the song while staying in that key for the song. I k ow these questions probably don't make much sense but some info or guidance on this general topic would be much appreciated. And I know really there aren't rules with this kinda stuff but assuming while I'm learning about writing music I want to stick to these scales and guidelines for which notes work together.

Also with reference to the 808 being used as a sub, I use logic, I tried editing the sample with the sample editor, so to just cut out the middle of the sample(1cycle) and then loop it, but when I bounce it to audio n chuck it in the exs24, when I hold down the key, the sample will cut out after maybe a second, what can I do so that this note just continues or loops until I release the key.

Any help much appreciated!

Firstly there should be a column you can check in the edit window of your exs24 for looping, if its not there activate through the options (or whatever its called) menu at the top of the edit window.


As for you key question, it works like this: There's seven chords (triads) in each scale, one for each note. The pattern for a major key works like Major, Minor, Minor, Major, Major, Minor, Diminished.

So for a C major key (CDEFGABC) the possible triads are

C Major CEG
D Minor DFA
E Minor EGB
F Major FAC
G Major GBD
A Minor ACE
B Dim. BDF
C Major CEG


So you've picked a key for the song (in my case C major) - that means if you're strict about staying in key, you can play any note out of CDEFGABC throughout the song and it'll sound fine. And ANY of the chords above, and really any combination of notes above to make your own chords.

Your sub can be any note you want from the scale you want.

[kyle g]

thanks! people on this forum rule!

[AL4228]

slap your stomach and see how many times you wobble per second, I bet its in the infrasound range.

lmao

[marcobartoli]

i tried everything mentioned here, still i can't hear my sub on my speakers.
on my headphones it sounds nice n full though.
do u think its just my speakers?or am i not supposed to hear it? using maudio bx5a by the way

[JacobJenner]

Soundcloud

[Echoi]

Soundcloud

Its awful, stop spamming

[paravrais]

Soundcloud

Oh just fuck off.

[Demian]

Something I learnt a while ago which wasnt mentioned here.
If you want to raise the overall presence/volume of your sub bass without boosting your levels, turn your resonance about half way up and then from 0 very slowly turn up the frequency. At a certain point your sub bass will suddenly sound a lot louder and thicker.
Technically, I think this is what is going on.
You have managed to find the exact same frequency as what the sound is oscillating at, so youve essentially created a self oscillating filter. I think, maybe.
Go search earth shattering sub bass on you tube to get a really complex explaination.
Gus

I've read this before too. I guess the idea is that a self resonating filter is a perfect sine wave....even purer than the sine waves in most oscillators.

I'm inclined to believe this because I tested it on my Monotron with a little portable speaker. Compared to a heavily lp filtered saw, even with the volume up...it's nothing compared to when I crank the resonance. It turns little speakers into rumble packs.

[dubz]

I'm interested in hearing how you folks use pitch envelope to make the sub move and shake. Does anyone have good techniques for using pitch to make the sub move?

cheers

[amphibian]

2 - using detuned waveforms : take 2 identical waves (sine, saw, square or triangle) and detune them - let's say -.25 / +.25 semitone.

Sorry if I'm being stupid, but why the extra semitone? -25 (-2 octaves and 1 semitone) instead of -24 semitones (2 octaves), does this give a different sound or something because I'd prefer to keep it to the normal octaves. Or am I being proper stupid??? Thanks in advance for any help.

.25 not 25



what, you think your going to have a sine at C1 and C3 for you sub...

0.25 semitone aka 50 cents either way.

So that's how he got his name... he actually knows a thing or two about production, and here I am just thinking he was cheap (lol)

[gusismyname]

Something I learnt a while ago which wasnt mentioned here.
If you want to raise the overall presence/volume of your sub bass without boosting your levels, turn your resonance about half way up and then from 0 very slowly turn up the frequency. At a certain point your sub bass will suddenly sound a lot louder and thicker.
Technically, I think this is what is going on.
You have managed to find the exact same frequency as what the sound is oscillating at, so youve essentially created a self oscillating filter. I think, maybe.
Go search earth shattering sub bass on you tube to get a really complex explaination.
Gus

I've read this before too. I guess the idea is that a self resonating filter is a perfect sine wave....even purer than the sine waves in most oscillators.

I'm inclined to believe this because I tested it on my Monotron with a little portable speaker. Compared to a heavily lp filtered saw, even with the volume up...it's nothing compared to when I crank the resonance. It turns little speakers into rumble packs.

glad someone else is using this technique, i've been trying to get a leofah (I think thats how its spelt) kind of bass and I found that, getting three osc, using this technique on one, then low passing it, then high passing the other two, and adding small distortion (different on both) on them gave me what I was looking for, sweet.

[Violet]

So do people use sub bass under EVERYTHING? If i created 130bpm dancable beat and added some filthy basslines to it with massive and some wobbles with scream-filter, would I still have to add an additional track just for the sub bass?

[Killamike49]

Something I learnt a while ago which wasnt mentioned here.
If you want to raise the overall presence/volume of your sub bass without boosting your levels, turn your resonance about half way up and then from 0 very slowly turn up the frequency. At a certain point your sub bass will suddenly sound a lot louder and thicker.
Technically, I think this is what is going on.
You have managed to find the exact same frequency as what the sound is oscillating at, so youve essentially created a self oscillating filter. I think, maybe.
Go search earth shattering sub bass on you tube to get a really complex explaination.
Gus

I've read this before too. I guess the idea is that a self resonating filter is a perfect sine wave....even purer than the sine waves in most oscillators.

I'm inclined to believe this because I tested it on my Monotron with a little portable speaker. Compared to a heavily lp filtered saw, even with the volume up...it's nothing compared to when I crank the resonance. It turns little speakers into rumble packs.

Resonance is simply how much gain is added to where your filter is set, which is why your subs sounds alot louder. Because it is, haha.
http://www.image-line.com/support/FLHel ... cutres.htm

[CreamLord]

Big up everyone in this thread, really good information!

[mikeyp]

So do people use sub bass under EVERYTHING? If i created 130bpm dancable beat and added some filthy basslines to it with massive and some wobbles with scream-filter, would I still have to add an additional track just for the sub bass?

that's the beauty of music and this type of music in particular; it's all up to you man
if you want a rumbling 130 4x4 tune go for it
if you want it to be more unce unce unce then leave out the sub or keep it reaaaalll low under the kicks