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here is a very simple and straight forward structure for dubstep

4/4 at 140bpm

measures
1-32 = intro (keep it simple, and easy to fallow rhythmically so dj's will want to match it up in the heat of a mix, or while performing)
33-64 = bass and drums - main meat of the tune
65-96 = add something (like a pad or slight change in bassline, some congas, or a arp synth) keep it rollin
97-112 = break (take out most) (put your little voice sample in here, and a riser or a buildup take out the drums maybe the bass too.)
113-160 = All in (bass, drums, pads) - climax of the tune..
161-176 = subtract something (take out the congas, or the synthy arp thing)
177-208 = outro (take out more stuff, get minimal here)
209 = ending (a little sound, or a delay echoing off into the distance, or your little voice thing you used in the break.) I like to mix tunes that I can ride all the way to the end, and let the song mix itself out with the last little noise.

I like to put fills in 1 or 2 measures before each change, i.e, measure 63 and 64 would be a drum fill, or a pause, or something to give it character. I find it nice to make each fill different. and that takes away from such a repetitive feel.

so fills would be measures
31-32
63-64
95-96
111-112
159-160
175-176

ooops. disregard this post, meant to be pm.

i see a definite benefit in having a track template made....something where you have some unused audio channels setup...to say audition loops or to chop drums....maybe having a few of your "go-to" vsts set up and bussed, so you can start writing music instantly when the inspiration strikes. Having to start from a blank project sometimes can hinder those inspired moments from flourishing...(by the time you have your basic setup ready you forgot what you were trying to do in the first place) as a DJ i see it pretty important for there to be even numbered measures in the track structure....IE...things changing on every two 32beat measures or every 64th beat...this way drops lineup easier and it is easier to set cue points because you have time to bring something new in. figuring that almost all EDM is going to be played by DJ`s who are going to mix it, it only makes sense to have an even song structure...not to mention that if you`re selling your tunes on say beatport or the like.....your main customers are most likely going to be DJ`s...its absolutely annoying to have a dope track that you can`t seemlessly mix without setting some kind of ackward cuepoint...which also makes improvising....or reading the crowd during a dj set much more difficult. would you ever write ANY edm track in 3/4 time signature? probably not. so IMO the only thing important about structure is just having an even one...i usually stick to 64 beat phrases....that way you can introduce the drop for the first 32 and then drop in some more percussion for example on the following 32 to give the track a sense of picking up...building and then dropping into your next phrase or breakdown.

love this thread. big up all the dope answers and varied viewpoints, its all gold.

interesting situation, my roomate and i are both producers, he djs dubstep and breaks, i dont. all his tunes are strick 16 and 32 bar loops, no weird drops or breaks. "they have to be mixable" he tells me. without this "dj mindset" i dont give a fuck about putting a random 2 bars here or make 24 bar drops instead of 32, whatever if feel like is cool. tunes like this i have no real aspiration to have djs spin, just good headphone music. hed come look at my session and couldnt figure out what i was doing cuz it wasnt strick 16s. right now however im specifically working on bigger dancefloor tunes and the only thing im concerned with is having a tight structure so djs will play em. they have to be mixable after all.

all that said if its a big enough tune my roommate will play it. complains all the time about how fucked up Napt's song structures are but will still play their tunes cuz theyre fire.

Awsome thread! Thx everyone and jasonic for input. I've always followed this structure more or less and its been good to clear a few things up. I find my songs with ableton never get out of clip view. :-/

yamaz wrote: I find my songs with ableton never get out of clip view. :-/

I used to have an issue with that. Get a loop going and pop it in the arrangement window asap. Lay out the arrangement and mess around with the little things later. It'll really help the workflow.

Jasonic wrote:here is a very simple and straight forward structure for dubstep

4/4 at 140bpm

measures
1-32 = intro (keep it simple, and easy to fallow rhythmically so dj's will want to match it up in the heat of a mix, or while performing)
33-64 = bass and drums - main meat of the tune
65-96 = add something (like a pad or slight change in bassline, some congas, or a arp synth) keep it rollin
97-112 = break (take out most) (put your little voice sample in here, and a riser or a buildup take out the drums maybe the bass too.)
113-160 = All in (bass, drums, pads) - climax of the tune..
161-176 = subtract something (take out the congas, or the synthy arp thing)
177-208 = outro (take out more stuff, get minimal here)
209 = ending (a little sound, or a delay echoing off into the distance, or your little voice thing you used in the break.) I like to mix tunes that I can ride all the way to the end, and let the song mix itself out with the last little noise.

I like to put fills in 1 or 2 measures before each change, i.e, measure 63 and 64 would be a drum fill, or a pause, or something to give it character. I find it nice to make each fill different. and that takes away from such a repetitive feel.

so fills would be measures
31-32
63-64
95-96
111-112
159-160
175-176

BUT if want to be original and push forward into the unknown boundaries of freshness and revolution completely ignore everything here.

There is NO formula for success except for ORIGINALITY.

^^ You have to learn the rules before you can break them.

strunkdts wrote:

Jasonic wrote:here is a very simple and straight forward structure for dubstep

4/4 at 140bpm

measures
1-32 = intro (keep it simple, and easy to fallow rhythmically so dj's will want to match it up in the heat of a mix, or while performing)
33-64 = bass and drums - main meat of the tune
65-96 = add something (like a pad or slight change in bassline, some congas, or a arp synth) keep it rollin
97-112 = break (take out most) (put your little voice sample in here, and a riser or a buildup take out the drums maybe the bass too.)
113-160 = All in (bass, drums, pads) - climax of the tune..
161-176 = subtract something (take out the congas, or the synthy arp thing)
177-208 = outro (take out more stuff, get minimal here)
209 = ending (a little sound, or a delay echoing off into the distance, or your little voice thing you used in the break.) I like to mix tunes that I can ride all the way to the end, and let the song mix itself out with the last little noise.

I like to put fills in 1 or 2 measures before each change, i.e, measure 63 and 64 would be a drum fill, or a pause, or something to give it character. I find it nice to make each fill different. and that takes away from such a repetitive feel.

so fills would be measures
31-32
63-64
95-96
111-112
159-160
175-176

BUT if want to be original and push forward into the unknown boundaries of freshness and revolution completely ignore everything here.

There is NO formula for success except for ORIGINALITY.

Sorry but that's a bunch of crap. Certain things sound good to us, universally speaking. 'theory' isn't something that's been made and then followed. It's something that's been developed by observing and studying music from all throughout history and breaking it down into its most simple elements.

I won't go to much in to why and how we like what we do, but its very much down to maths (oddly) and things 'matching up'. Think about the frequency ratio's between octaves, the interval of a fifth, so on, They sound correct to us because the vibration oscillations hitting our ears have a mathematically correlating relationship.

There is a reason we naturally 'want' to hear a 16 bar measure draw to a close and a new phrase begin, there is a reason we find melodic motives appealing when they follow a pattern anchored around a tonic, octave and fifth. We are intrinsically hard wired to appreciate balance and Rhythm, the same reason certain elements of religious architecture have been classified as 'perfect' and naturally appeals to our aesthetic natures, due to their balanced nature of dark and light elements and curved and straight lines.

Even an oscillator follows this basic nature of balanced rhythm...

An understanding of the nature of rhythm begins with observation of the world and ourselves as a part of it. It is immediately obvious that rhythm plays a vital part in the world—in fact, our lives are totally governed by it. There is the rhythm of the seasons, the tides, and the phases of the moon, as well as that important diurnal rhythm by which our lives are regulated and controlled—the alternation of night and day.

Looking at ourselves, we can also see rhythm in abundance—in the beating of our hearts, the inhalation and exhalation of breath, the rhythmic action of peristalsis, the process of walking. Rhythm, in fact, is everywhere, both within and without. So it is perhaps no coincidence to discover that the rhythms of music tend to take their cue from such natural rhythms. Musical time tends to be divided up into regular beats—pulses of a consistent duration that emulate those regular rhythms of nature. Then there are rhythms of pitch that dance around frequency relationships within sound that are themselves based on how the rhythms of each pitch creating oscillation relate to each other. Regardless of whether the music has a percussion track, an ability to listen to and understand the music heard depends upon an ability to pick up and follow these rhythms.

To become 'successful' at music creation is to intimately understand that music is an extension and an expression of human experience. Our experiences, both subjective and objective do have certain inescapable veritable truths about them, and thus those elements also transfer into an expression of our minds through music. To listen to anothers music and sense instinctively the same carnal elements that govern our own personal reality consoles us. It re-affirms our reality and sense of identity and makes us feel connected with the external world and the depth of human experience that little bit more intimately.

This is why music does have a framework, and why it should be respected, It isn't some 'quick fix' joke fast track to fame, it is the discovered framework and structure of a language we have already been using for thousands of years.

Here is a video I put together that goes through basic electronic music song structure as well as dubstep. I also wrote an article that goes over Dubstep song structure

subaqueous wrote:Here is a video I put together that goes through basic electronic music song structure as well as dubstep. I also wrote an article that goes over Dubstep song structure

Are you ever going to make a post that doesnt promote your blog or youtube?

Also, question...

What if i have the typical 32 bar intro, then an offtime drop after that? Isnt this the best of both, mixable and odd?

Are you ever going to make a post that doesnt promote your blog or youtube?

You can change the into or outro to anything you would like. 32 works. The only thing is 32 measures is a long time to keep a crowd. I used to make a lot of 32 and 16 changes and intros. In a live setting I noticed that if it doesn't happen in at least 16 measures then I begin to loss the crowd. Well at a club that is. When I am doing a chill set I can do whatever and take the chance to go with longer ambient in between. Love me some ambient.

I just spent time studying different genres of music and noticed most stuck to the same timing. It's just a guidline, but used a lot for a reason. Easy to do and easy to listen to.

Hope that helps.

When I'm DJing, I bring in new tracks by simply looping an 8-16 bar section that's in the build of the song that's right before an important/unique/grabbing part of the intro, switch over the bass'/mids/tops, and then release the loop when the previous song is dieing out or is just simply repeating itsef for mixing purpose.

It's a pretty simple way to dj and it gives me more control over when and where I bring in a new song. I mean, DJing CAN be a complicated process depending on what style of DJing you're into, but when it comes down to it you're just picking the vibe for the space you're entertaining people in and playing the right song should take priority over any over complicated and needy DJing process.

Check out my latest mix. It's high energy, video-gamey and there's LOADS of bass:

Soundcloud

http://soundcloud.com/bleepbloopblorp
http://www.facebook.com/BuzzBombMusic

I DJ with Ableton on a Macbook Pro. I use an APC40 as my controller/mixer. And I watch my levels on the mixer that's setup to the audio system I'm patching through to make sure I'm never clipping. It's a LOT of fun!

When I'm DJing, I bring in new tracks by simply looping an 8-16 bar section that's in the build of the song that's right before an important/unique/grabbing part of the intro, switch over the bass'/mids/tops, and then release the loop when the previous song is dieing out or is just simply repeating itself for mixing purpose.

It's a pretty simple way to dj and it gives me more control over when and where I bring in a new song. I mean, DJing CAN be a complicated process depending on what style of DJing you're into, but when it comes down to it you're just picking the vibe for the space you're entertaining people in and playing the right song should take priority over any over complicated and needy DJing process.

Check out my latest mix. It's high energy, video-gamey and there's LOADS of bass:

Soundcloud

http://soundcloud.com/bleepbloopblorp
http://www.facebook.com/BuzzBombMusic

serox wrote:

FSTZ wrote:

Serox wrote:Dont forget Dubstep DJs are not very good in general.

disagree

can we stop makeing these production "bibles"???

I am only going by what I hear at clubs/radios bro.

The people playing at the clubs are good producers but they may not be as good at mixing. I am not alone in thinking this, I hear the same quite often.

Dont forget Dubstep is mostly done on computers and all sequenced by computers and to make it even easier they are nearly all the same tempo.

It doesnt even come close to trying to mix old music like Acid House, Electro and HipHop. Shit, even old Techno from the 90s was cut n paste reel to reel shit that does not stay in time.

House is easy to mix.
Electro is easy to mix
Hip-Hop is the one I agree on. It is difficult.

However, I've had to practice my arse off to get Dubstep right. Techno from the 90's stayed in time. There were no 3/4 or weird signatures in the beats or else it wouldn't have been as popular as was.

Phizicist wrote:

serox wrote:

FSTZ wrote:

Serox wrote:Dont forget Dubstep DJs are not very good in general.

disagree

can we stop makeing these production "bibles"???

I am only going by what I hear at clubs/radios bro.

The people playing at the clubs are good producers but they may not be as good at mixing. I am not alone in thinking this, I hear the same quite often.

Dont forget Dubstep is mostly done on computers and all sequenced by computers and to make it even easier they are nearly all the same tempo.

It doesnt even come close to trying to mix old music like Acid House, Electro and HipHop. Shit, even old Techno from the 90s was cut n paste reel to reel shit that does not stay in time.

House is easy to mix.
Electro is easy to mix
Hip-Hop is the one I agree on. It is difficult.

However, I've had to practice my arse off to get Dubstep right. Techno from the 90's stayed in time. There were no 3/4 or weird signatures in the beats or else it wouldn't have been as popular as was.

House is actually one of the hardest to mix... well. To mix house well, you have to be very subtle because instant bass switches sound horrible in house music. Don't know how it is nowadays but early 2000's, when I went to house parties, I've seen DJ's 'playing whole sets that looked like 1 track only.

serox wrote:From a DJs point of view the whole point in having a structure is two combine two records and have them both doing the same things at the same time. This is in the producers favour as it means I will play his record for longer and it will sound good mixed with another.

If the record drops out of time and does weird shit there is not much chance I am going to play it.

You dont have to stick to x number of bars for an intro, or a breakdown or anything really. Having a consistency through the record is good.

Only thing that matters really is having the first sound on the record and the first drop all in time. I dont know if it is done on purpose but some people have things dropping out of time

some of the most awesome techno songs drop out of time, which is what makes their drops so fucking amazing - like dropping the beat on the 3rd or 4th beat - if done well it puts the listener off balance and gives them a fresh perspective on the whole tune - like a plot twist in a story...

.