Dubstepforum.com

Sick Boy wrote:I can understand people who use Serato if they are doing certain gigs, or playing certain gigs, but I would never in a million years spin dubstep over a large system using Serato.

What I'm being made to understand about Dubstep is a lot of the appeal is about the "physicality" of it in the clubs, and you lose a nice big percentage of that physicality by spinning Mp3s.

what would justify "certain gigs'?
serato plays wavs too - no loss there. 90% of the tunes on my hard drive are wavs. besides, i doubt you could tell a FLAC MP3 from WAV or real vinyl (other than the crickets) anyway.

what difference does it make if its a vinyl "control" rekkid, an acetate dub-plate, or an authentic vinyl disc??

if the crowd is moving their feet, the heads are nodding - what are you doing wrong??

i think people are affraid of change, even if its change for the better.
people raised hell about playing cds, but every club i play at has em right next to the decks. i dont know about you guys, but the dubs that i get (if they arent transferred via the web) come from a cd.

i can get hundreds of revolutions and maintain a quality sound towards the end of its life out of a control record versus the dozen plays or so from a dubplate.

ill say it again - sound quality is an issue here

i doubt most of the people who play dubs on cd have them professionally mastered, whereas practically every dubplate is.

ramadanman wrote:ill say it again - sound quality is an issue here

i doubt most of the people who play dubs on cd have them professionally mastered, whereas practically every dubplate is.

Sure, that's the added bonus of playing out with dubplates - a pro has mastered the track as well as cutting it. Of course when it comes to released tracks, the mastered MP3s (320) or wavs are going to sound extremely similar if not identical to the sounds on a dubplate.

Crucially, only a select few can afford to continuously cut plates - therefore I care less about the differences in sound quality if it means lesser known DJs are able to play out tracks by lesser-known producers. It's pretty much the same with any genre...how many bands who record their first EP or single get it professionally mastered?

Sick Boy wrote:I can understand people who use Serato if they are doing certain gigs, or playing certain gigs, but I would never in a million years spin dubstep over a large system using Serato.

What I'm being made to understand about Dubstep is a lot of the appeal is about the "physicality" of it in the clubs, and you lose a nice big percentage of that physicality by spinning Mp3s.

Yeah the music itself can be described as a physical experience, not how it is played. I wouldn't think any DJ's use anything other than WAV's or FLAC's anyway, and can you really tell the difference between a dubplate/vinyl and WAV/FLAC when you're in a club?

Digital wrote:Yeah the music itself can be described as a physical experience, not how it is played. I wouldn't think any DJ's use anything other than WAV's or FLAC's anyway, and can you really tell the difference between a dubplate/vinyl and WAV/FLAC when you're in a club?

Basically, it should all be about the quality of the production of the finished track*, not what format it's played on. Remember, all those lovely 10" Transition dubplates were once wavs created on a computer too.

Serato DJ:


Dubplate DJ:


*I'm not saying production is more important than musicianship, we've done that one

ramadanman wrote:ill say it again - sound quality is an issue here

i doubt most of the people who play dubs on cd have them professionally mastered, whereas practically every dubplate is.

Says the man who's just had his tracks mastered

ramadanman wrote:ill say it again - sound quality is an issue here

i doubt most of the people who play dubs on cd have them professionally mastered, whereas practically every dubplate is.

Yes, this is so true and i don't like it when DJs use digital media for their sets. It's just not good quality. I prefere vinyl over any other media.

Everyone saying "vinyl's just better quality" needs to do a bit of reading. It would be better to admit you're just nostalgic / sentimental, surely? There's nowt wrong with that. That's why I collect vinyl anyway. I love the feel of it in my hand, love getting fresh tunes in the post, love being able to see the groove before you put the plate on the platter etc.

Saying "I don't like it when DJs use digital media for their sets" is too image conscious imo. The skills required to mix it are the same, and as technology makes mixing easier the crowds will begin to demand more technical proficiency or imagination in other areas.

When dub rigs started getting big, the new technology like tape loops and echo chambers were an essential part of the sound, there's no reason why new technology has to be a bad thing.

brklss wrote:Yes, this is so true and i don't like it when DJs use digital media for their sets. It's just not good quality.

brklss wrote:I prefere vinyl over any other media.

Yeah, me too.

darkmatter wrote:Everyone saying "vinyl's just better quality" needs to do a bit of reading. It would be better to admit you're just nostalgic / sentimental, surely? There's nowt wrong with that. That's why I collect vinyl anyway. I love the feel of it in my hand, love getting fresh tunes in the post, love being able to see the groove before you put the plate on the platter etc.

Saying "I don't like it when DJs use digital media for their sets" is too image conscious imo. The skills required to mix it are the same, and as technology makes mixing easier the crowds will begin to demand more technical proficiency or imagination in other areas.

i saw jah tubby, we're talking jah tubby here, a month ago and they play all their stuff off some celeron laptop. i mean if digital sound is good enough for a dub pioneer playing off a massive rig then surely....

... at the same time, thinking back to the same dance, aba shanti was playing off vinyl exclusively. they both were amazing. which is my two cents, it's like filmmakers who prefer using film rather than video, there are multiple strategies for the creation of art, and neither choice should be disparaged at the end of the day.

one more note, my boys had dj assault in toronto doing a show and he apparently was less than enamored with "final cheat"

darkmatter wrote:Everyone saying "vinyl's just better quality" needs to do a bit of reading. It would be better to admit you're just nostalgic / sentimental, surely? There's nowt wrong with that. That's why I collect vinyl anyway. I love the feel of it in my hand, love getting fresh tunes in the post, love being able to see the groove before you put the plate on the platter etc.

Saying "I don't like it when DJs use digital media for their sets" is too image conscious imo. The skills required to mix it are the same, and as technology makes mixing easier the crowds will begin to demand more technical proficiency or imagination in other areas.

When dub rigs started getting big, the new technology like tape loops and echo chambers were an essential part of the sound, there's no reason why new technology has to be a bad thing.

tho add to nostalgia the general performance element of dj-ing. i'd rather see youngsta physically cueing up a dubplate than see how youngsta might look when he's checking his email. with serrato i suppose you still get this kind of performance, and the idea of mixing up/reproducing tunes as you go is an attractive one in terms of creativity, but raw dj skills in front of you is pleasant on the eye, regardless...

SS sounds pretty good in a club, their D/A is wicked safe.

Personally, I use the program for playing just unreleased stuff. When receiveing unreleased music I'll usualy ask the artist to mail a CD of waves so I can rip it direct. I dont mind waiting the extra few days for the post.

Playing strictly MP3's will sound lame, allways has if it's mp3's on SS, CD or cut to dub.

For me Serato is more about the feeling of using 1200's. I HATE with a passion spinning on CD players.. I simply cant throw down like I can on decks.

All about finding the right mix of a comfortable financial zone and intuitive feeling for the dj all without compromising sound quality.

Some people think that's best cutting dubs, I feel they're to expensive and would rather spin wavs on serato..
Some people think serato is cold and unreal.. they'd rather cut dubs.

Dont matter either way.

IMO CDJ's fucking blow though

rachel wrote:
tho add to nostalgia the general performance element of dj-ing. i'd rather see youngsta physically cueing up a dubplate than see how youngsta might look when he's checking his email. with serrato i suppose you still get this kind of performance, and the idea of mixing up/reproducing tunes as you go is an attractive one in terms of creativity, but raw dj skills in front of you is pleasant on the eye, regardless...

thats the beauty of serato.

other than the laptop on the side - it FEELS and ACTS like real vinyl.
you can que, push, pull, scratch what ever you can do with vinyl you can do with serato!!!

serato > final scratch > cd decks

rachel wrote:

darkmatter wrote:Everyone saying "vinyl's just better quality" needs to do a bit of reading. It would be better to admit you're just nostalgic / sentimental, surely? There's nowt wrong with that. That's why I collect vinyl anyway. I love the feel of it in my hand, love getting fresh tunes in the post, love being able to see the groove before you put the plate on the platter etc.

Saying "I don't like it when DJs use digital media for their sets" is too image conscious imo. The skills required to mix it are the same, and as technology makes mixing easier the crowds will begin to demand more technical proficiency or imagination in other areas.

When dub rigs started getting big, the new technology like tape loops and echo chambers were an essential part of the sound, there's no reason why new technology has to be a bad thing.

tho add to nostalgia the general performance element of dj-ing. i'd rather see youngsta physically cueing up a dubplate than see how youngsta might look when he's checking his email. with serrato i suppose you still get this kind of performance, and the idea of mixing up/reproducing tunes as you go is an attractive one in terms of creativity, but raw dj skills in front of you is pleasant on the eye, regardless...

completely agree. tim exile plays entirely from computer - it's probably all beatmatched and chopped into loops before the show, but he's contantly fucking around with all his midi controllers and mixers to mash up the sound live. theres a lot going on and its interesting to watch, and any claims that hes cheating cos hes not using vinyl would quickly be silenced if someone saw him live!

captain easychord wrote:i saw jah tubby, we're talking jah tubby here, a month ago and they play all their stuff off some celeron laptop. i mean if digital sound is good enough for a dub pioneer playing off a massive rig then surely....

... at the same time, thinking back to the same dance, aba shanti was playing off vinyl exclusively. they both were amazing. which is my two cents, it's like filmmakers who prefer using film rather than video, there are multiple strategies for the creation of art, and neither choice should be disparaged at the end of the day.

one more note, my boys had dj assault in toronto doing a show and he apparently was less than enamored with "final cheat"

Haha, yeah he didn't like it very much.

i may be a little late on this, and i haven't read through all the posts, but i have used Serato and i currently own Final Skratch for the past 4 years. out of the two, i have to pick FS, not that i'm playing sides or defending the product that i own, both programs are essentially the same, break out boxes/time code records/multiple format support/yadda yadda. my major contention between the two is in the user interface. with Serrato, it's really hard to see what the fug is going on with the track that you are playing. the window that shows you track progress is small and therefore the parts of the track zoom by and it's nearly impossible to tell where you are in the track. it's just not as intuitive for me. FS is based off of Traktor (now anyways) which has a solid interface. track progress is easy to see and you have plenty of time to see what is coming up. one thing about Serrato that gets me is there's a spinning dial on the screen that doesn't seem to represent anything worthwhile. i guess it's supposed to let you know your records position, but you should be able to tell that because you've got your damn hand on the record to begin with!

as to the difference between vinyl and digital, vinyl will always win in sound quality because of the tactile difference in the way the sound is carried from the recorded media to the sound system. the needle is physically on the record, and the record physically manipulates the needle to create the sounds we hear. this is the unperciveable difference between cd/mp3 and record. there is something to be said about the "life" that a sound looses as it is trasnformed into a laser beam and digitally recreated into pluses and minuses.

brklss wrote:Yes, this is so true and i don't like it when DJs use digital media for their sets. It's just not good quality. I prefere vinyl over any other media.

Sweeping statement of the century?

Hello all,

Some of you may know me but most of you don't.
I'm from Seattle and work at Rane doing primarily tech support and product testing for Scratch Live.
I figured I would chime in on this topic for those of you who either don't know much about our product.

Scratch Live, like any instrument, takes a while to learn.
To be a confident user it requires you to do quite a bit of research. Lets face it, we are dealing with the headaches of computers.
This is new technology. Its not a plug in and go peice of gear.
There are obvious variables that can cause problems and to use Scratch Live you need to be prevy on these variables.
Things like backing up your files and bringing a back up to your shows, bringing your own needles, making sure the club you play at has serviced turntables and back ups if need be, and knowing to look at your scope views to get information on the tracking percentage of the control signal.
There are a bunch of djs that use Scratch Live and have no problems with it.
As for the quality, I am a total stereo buff. The tracks are only going to sound as good as the production.
I use 320kbps mp3s and can't tell the difference between a quality tune in that format and one on vinyl.
Sure playing a track that's not produced well will sound shitty but that goes for all formats, vinyl included.

embracing the digital age doesnt mean you need to compromise on what you do, if you are gonna be releasing vinyl (which you are Wink ) what message does it say to the record buyer?? "yeh buy my record mate, i play on serato scratch, but i want you to buy my vinyl" imo if you wanna promote the record shops etc you gotta play vinyl an dubs (jus my opinion)
plus the bass quality on digital formats jus doesnt compare to dubplates, imo

There was a time where I was scared to see vinyl go.
Before working at Rane I was working at a record shop and had been there for 7 years.
The way I see it is everyone needs to adapt to where the future is going.
If people don't adapt they will be left in the dust.
Record stores need to figure out a way to embrace the digital realm which in my opinion would include selling digital files.
I don't think vinyl will ever completely die but them being the main format is already at its end.
Digital downloads are better for the consumer and the producer.
All the money, or atleast most, goes to the producer.
The other amount goes to the owner of the website (if the producer doesn't have their own) that the file is downloaded from.
There is no headache of getting a dubplate cut, waiting for it to go to print and dealing with distibution (which can be a headache in itself).
The producer can make a tune one day and have it up online for sale the next!
Music has been overpriced because of all these middle men.
Cut the middle man, go to the source, and get music out fast.

I'm obviously bias towards this subject but can answer any question about Scratch Live that any of you have.
I'm a 100% behind the product and play with it and the TTM57 at every show I do and never have a problem that can't be fixed on the spot.

I look forward to producers and labels getting up to date with technology and supplying digital downloads as soon as the tracks come out!!
Check out http://scratchlive.net for more information or email me at zachs@rane.com.

i used to spend 100's of dollars a month cutting dubs for dnb... then i switched to cdjs...made life a bit easier but the quality wasnt there...
i bought serato only for a home project type thing, and i have NEVER looked back.. saved all types of money, and can play dubstep/house/dnb/hiphop at any given time and only having to grab my backpack....


if it works for you... great..

if it doesnt... great...

do whatchalike