Dubstepforum.com

Posted: **Sat May 02, 2009 10:12 pm**

This thread has gone on entirely too long.

Labels that don't release digital don't lose your sale, they never tried to get it. They don't want to sell you a digital copy of something. They want to sell you a physical product. You either buy it or you don't. If they are shooting themselves in the foot is up to them and them alone. As a person who doesn't buy vinyl, what problem do you have with a label that has nothing to do with the media you play?

Seems to me like you should probably just write them off as being something you won't be able to play in your sets as a digital DJ. Again, that may be their loss. It may also be your loss for not having turntables. It goes both ways in that situation. We sell digitally as well, but I can see how some people would want to be vinyl only.

Posted: **Sat May 02, 2009 10:14 pm**

Surface_Tension wrote:As a person who doesn't buy vinyl, what problem do you have with a label that has nothing to do with the media you play?

as an artist, I'm concerned when not everyone can hear what I make

Posted: **Sat May 02, 2009 10:26 pm**

arsenic wrote:
Surface_Tension wrote:As a person who doesn't buy vinyl, what problem do you have with a label that has nothing to do with the media you play?
as an artist, I'm concerned when not everyone can hear what I make

Well then it's pretty easy for YOU to make a decision about YOU. Nobody is telling you how to manage your own business and you should do the same thing and leave them and their business alone. If they haven't made the switch to digital sales alongside their vinyl sales, no amount of pissing and moaning is going to change that. No amount of digital sales are going to change that. No amount of evidence is going to change that. It's like telling an obsessive compulsive person that their hands are clean, their door is locked, and they should sit down and smoke a spliff.

It's sound advice, but they can't hear it because they're not listening. It's better if you sit down and smoke the spliff, and stop worrying about their compulsion to do what it is they do.

Posted: **Sat May 02, 2009 10:41 pm**

As a person who doesn't buy vinyl, what problem do you have with a label that has nothing to do with the media you play?

Duh, that's the problem right there.
Just because they don't release the music on a format you don't use doesn't mean you suddenly lose all desire to play, listen to and generally enjoy that music. It just makes you wish it had been released on another label where you might have been able to a) legally purchase and listen to the music, play it out and spread the word and b) support the label and artist.
Not saying I have a huge problem with vinyl only labels, it's a ting, whatever. At least there's more of a drive for quality control - my real problem is with the thousands of shit DIGITAL only labelz lol..

Posted: **Sat May 02, 2009 10:51 pm**

Posted: **Sat May 02, 2009 10:56 pm**

i dont think it has anything to do with making money, i just figure at this point its a good idea to release tracks digitally aswell as vinyl.

say your argument for not releasing digital becauase u want your tune to sound the way you want it when it gets played, and that sound is vinyl. but clearly there will be vinyl rips floating of the tunes that sound shitty! so why not control it by putting out a high quality digital download??

basically i think shit WILL be ripped and spread, so why not just put a good version for people?

Posted: **Sat May 02, 2009 10:58 pm**

and as far as there being "thousands" of shit digi labels is really not true. there arent that many really IMO. and who the fuck cares how many labels there are and how shit their tracks are? DONT BUY THEM, not hard. i for one think its awesome more and more labels sprout up.

Posted: **Sat May 02, 2009 11:00 pm**

Surface_Tension wrote:This thread has gone on entirely too long.

Labels that don't release digital don't lose your sale, they never tried to get it. They don't want to sell you a digital copy of something. They want to sell you a physical product. You either buy it or you don't. If they are shooting themselves in the foot is up to them and them alone. As a person who doesn't buy vinyl, what problem do you have with a label that has nothing to do with the media you play?

Seems to me like you should probably just write them off as being something you won't be able to play in your sets as a digital DJ. Again, that may be their loss. It may also be your loss for not having turntables. It goes both ways in that situation. We sell digitally as well, but I can see how some people would want to be vinyl only.

thats when vinyl rips get downloaded and neither the label or artist sees any cash

Posted: **Sat May 02, 2009 11:02 pm**

Deadly Habit wrote:thats when vinyl rips get downloaded and neither the label or artist sees any cash

and they sound shite!

Posted: **Sat May 02, 2009 11:16 pm**

tacospheros wrote: and guess what? same goes for 90% of your audience !

I dunno about that.. I make my music for DJ's to play, not for people to listen to. now if people buy my stuff and listen to it, thats a bonus..

CD's and full Albums are generally made for consumers, Singles and Records and generally made for DJ's..

to the guy that says his vinyls ware out from plying at the clubs.. STOP using ortofons, and get some needles that dun distroy vinyl, and maybe clean them and take care of them..

basic fact.. when the rapture comes.. I can still play my vinyls and dubs witha paper cup, and a sowing needle, I tryed that with a CD, and it didn't work, and I couldn't figure out how to do it to a wav..

The fact remains, the best piece of equipment that was ever made by man, is a Numann VMS-82DMM...

Notice that its cutting copper, and not acetate..

Posted: **Sun May 03, 2009 12:17 am**

Deadly Habit wrote: thats when vinyl rips get downloaded and neither the label or artist sees any cash

they will get posted online regardless, and the thieves can have the low shit quality version they deserve for stealing.

Posted: **Sun May 03, 2009 12:26 am**

Surface_Tension wrote:
Deadly Habit wrote: thats when vinyl rips get downloaded and neither the label or artist sees any cash
they will get posted online regardless, and the thieves can have the low shit quality version they deserve for stealing.

okay okay..
I have to say I'm torn between this..

On one hand, you can't BUY the kind of publicity that pirates can give you if they actually take the time to steal your tune, the other hand, I lose moneys....

I kinna take that as a compliment, coz someone took the time to do it, and usually they only pirate the hot shit...

it still sucks that I lose moneys, but on the other hand, its free promotion..

ying and yang..

but one thing is certain, if there was no pirates, then alot of these younger folks with no moneys wouldn't get any of dis music, and might have gotten into pop or something worse..

and I bet 90% of yous are using some sort of pirated software, but I guess thats okay coz they are big faceless companies right?

look as long as I known the underground, the pirates supported it all..

I knows you all think it's stealling, but really how much do you lose on a release due to pirates, and then think about how much it would cost to expose yourself to that big of an audience?

and... if you use pirated software to make your music, then stfu, coz your using scene stuff, and that means you gotta give back to it, somehow..

Posted: **Sun May 03, 2009 12:53 am**

jaybird wrote: and... if you use pirated software to make your music, then stfu, coz your using scene stuff, and that means you gotta give back to it, somehow..

this

and not just pirated software. who invented all the things that allow us to make music?

you gotta give back to bring it forward

Posted: **Sun May 03, 2009 1:03 am**

boomstix wrote:
jaybird wrote: and... if you use pirated software to make your music, then stfu, coz your using scene stuff, and that means you gotta give back to it, somehow..
this

and not just pirated software. who invented all the things that allow us to make music?

you gotta give back to bring it forward

it's true.. most of the computer audio stuff was pioneered by pirates..
like all the tracker softwarez...

propellerheadz stuff also originated from pirates..

Posted: **Sun May 03, 2009 1:06 am**

as trent reznor said the business model hasn't caught up with the consumer
if someone wants your music they will get it legally or illegally and if the product isn't available to those willing to pay for legally, well that's just poor business practice as it isolates your audience

also pirated software hurts in some ways people may not think of like increased drm and security features (like the ilok keys and usb dongles which needlessly wastes system resources which affects the programs/plugins performance, which becomes an issue on machines not running the latest and greatest hardware and decked out with ram

Posted: **Sun May 03, 2009 1:16 am**

Deadly Habit wrote:as trent reznor said the business model hasn't caught up with the consumer
if someone wants your music they will get it legally or illegally and if the product isn't available to those willing to pay for legally, well that's just poor business practice as it isolates your audience

also pirated software hurts in some ways people may not think of like increased drm and security features (like the ilok keys and usb dongles which needlessly wastes system resources which affects the programs/plugins performance, which becomes an issue on machines not running the latest and greatest hardware and decked out with ram

this is also true.. the cracked version of cubase sx3 runs better then the store bought.. thats why I bought it, and cracked it..

h20.nfo wrote:
Special Note :

H2O/DELiRiUM on Rampage.........!!!

We couldn't let this one pass us by. It gave us the opportunity to
improve on the Emu by adding lots of new applications. This time
it was alot quicker. Although the prior release took a lot of
man-hours (1500), this wasn't due to the copy protection itself,
but merely writing the emu on driver level (try to figure out the
driver model from microcrap...dooh).....

We hope u enjoy this release and the motto " TRY BEFORE BUY (tm) "
still counts!!

PS1:

Note to Steinberg/End-Users:

It seems that our prior Release Note stirred something in the
Audio Community (Yes, we can read). To get some of the facts
straight we're going to reveal some secrets about the copy
protection itself, and why we stated that it severely impacts
performance.

Info from Syncrosoft website:

"Syncrosoft's protection solution is different from
mainstream software copy protection methods. It is based on a
secure executer, the eLicenser, and the patented MCFACT
technology" "At runtime, the transformed program code does not
reveal its semantics. The eLicenser's crypto-services are called
from time to time by the transformed program code." The
transformed program code is represented as tables in the computers
memory. An adversary can not reverse-engineer or debug the tables,
because a reverse transformation from the tables to original
program code is not feasible. If the tables are manipulated, the
transformed program code will crash or produce invalid results."

So its not crackable?...

Now here is the explanation for what really goes on:

Transformation is based on replacing ordinary machine code into
tables representing results from calculations

Example:

Adding 2 numbers Normal machine-code would look something like :

Add eax, ebx

This will take 1 CPU cycle to execute.

Now comes MCFACT :

1) Transform the first number into a table

2) Transform the second number into a table

3) Do allot of manipulation of these tables

4) More manipulation

5) Transform the Tables back to the numbers

6) Add the 2 numbers

This entire piece takes up hundreds of machine code lines and a
lot of loops inside this code...estimated CPU-cycles <insert>

No performance loss? We don't think so..........

And this code runs all the time!!......The dongle in fact is only
called 1 out of 10 times inside these scripts.........

A good example is the protection build in the midi-part. This is
entirely wrapped in the script-crap. Try moving a note and swirl
it around.....you should notice a sluggishness in the movement.

In fact u will notice an improvement in version 3.1 prior to the
3.0 release. This is not due to improvements made by Steinberg
(the midi-engine is still the same) but improvements made by
Syncrosoft! (They optimized the script engine)!!!!!!!

To give the end user some peace of mind: the scripts aren't built
into the real-time audio-engine.....this is impossible because of
the performance loss u would have from the MCFACT.

PS2:

For those of you who where observant, you should have seen the
blinking red light on the tray icon dongle when dongle activity
was present. We now added a nice new feature to the tray icon: The
ToolTip will show how often the dongle is called during a session.

PS3:

Currently the emu doesn't support Cubase SX 1, the effort to
support this one is too high. Besides the older emus from
ARCTIC/ZONE work perfect.For more info check the Readme on the Emu

PS4:

For all the lame crackers out there who try to remove the H2O
splash or the dongle tray icon : give respect to the effort and
don't do that,perhaps u could be in for a surprise who knows ...

End-users: If you don't have the H2O-splash and trayicon...do not
complain that the application in time will crash and you will
never know why it does.

Posted: **Sun May 03, 2009 1:19 am**

most of the pirated stuff is vinyl rips so they would have had to have bought it in the first place, the rest never had any intention of buying the tune anyway so you're not losing a sale

...unless like me, who likes it so much i gots to have it but to be honest aint fuck all worth buying these days

take that burial thing. i'm not buying it based on a clip. I gots to hear the whole thing and even then when downloading shit i'll give it the once over sometimes while its still on the DL and if i'm not feeling it i dont finish the transfer so its straight to the trash with it

same with a mate and vinyl. i've seen him line up 10 records play the intro, the drop and the outtro in less than a minute and decide whether its worth the investment

Posted: **Sun May 03, 2009 8:07 am**

I don't get people that say it's not for us to say why or what a label decides to do. Is this not the point of a forum? Labels really aren't going to change their ways based on a debate from a handful of people on here.

Going exclusively vinyl is a much more feasible option for strongly established labels with big reputations and big names behind them. I don't think many new labels can really afford to not do digital for the promotion and awareness if nothing else.

If people really want to get hold of the music, they will, regardless of its intended format. As said before, it's up to the labels to decide whether what is in circulation is of good quality or not and ensuring consumers can enjoy their music to the fullest.

Posted: **Sun May 03, 2009 8:19 am**

well im not a dj , i dont have decks, so i have absolutely no reason to buy vinyl

In that case why dont you just buy compilation cd's and save yourself some money.

Posted: **Sun May 03, 2009 9:01 am**

Having the technology to steal doesn't give you the right to steal. I could have a crowbar, but if I crack you in the head with that shit, I go to prison. I can't pull the old "but I had a crowbar" routine when the coppers roll up.

What I mean, is just because you have access to stolen shit doesn't mean you should take advantage of it. On a base level it's wrong. It's illegal. You can call it practicing civil disobedience or whatever, but at the end of the day it's stealing and it is a crime in most countries on the planet.

The problem is that people feel like they are entitled. Not too long ago, you'd either hear something on the radio, at home or in a club, but you only had a few choices for media to play it on. Now you have infinite access to music and you feel entitled to hear the entire tune. Fair play, all of our releases are able to be streamed in their entirety on our blog in decent quality.

But I promise you that socialism only works if people give back what they take from the system financially. If you just take and never support the art, there won't be nearly the same amount of art and some quality artists may not be able to afford their hobby. For a lot of people it would be a dream to eek out a meager living from their craft and that sense of entitlement can kill that shit real fast.

Dubstepforum.com

not releasing digital.