love

bellybelle · Post by **bellybelle** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:16 pm

SD5.....that was beautiful and a truly beautiful sentiment indeed. I really enjoy your contributions to this thread. Definitely make it worth coming back.

Here's to you and your input on love.

kins83 · Post by **kins83** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:17 pm

SD5 wrote:'d luv to win the lottery
and give it, somehow anonymously,
to heaps of people doin' it tuff...
or just nice people yu know would do worthwhile stuff...
farmers and deros and single parents,
unemployed steppas and maimed workers,
couples that can't afford to have kids,
retired factory workers and pensioners

It's a (sigh) beautiful aspect of love: giving over
and just as good to be relaxed with being given to...
None of that compulsion to reciprocate
or feel obligated...

There's a tv show called The Secret Millionaire which is in that kind of vein. A successful businessperson moves to a community without any of their possessions etc. They meet people that live in that community - people doing community projects and volunteer stuff etc, and spend a couple of weeks with them. After that, the millionaire reveals who they really are and dishes out money to the various people that they've met. There's some truly heartwarming stuff on there, brings a tear to the eye (yes I'm a pussy).

bellybelle · Post by **bellybelle** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:19 pm

kins83 wrote:There's a tv show called The Secret Millionaire which is in that kind of vein. A successful businessperson moves to a community without any of their possessions etc. They meet people that live in that community - people doing community projects and volunteer stuff etc, and spend a couple of weeks with them. After that, the millionaire reveals who they really are and dishes out money to the various people that they've met. There's some truly heartwarming stuff on there, brings a tear to the eye (yes I'm a pussy).

I wish we had that show. And remember, Kins.....its always better than being a dick.

elbe · Post by **elbe** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:20 pm

kins83 wrote:
SD5 wrote:'d luv to win the lottery
and give it, somehow anonymously,
to heaps of people doin' it tuff...
or just nice people yu know would do worthwhile stuff...
farmers and deros and single parents,
unemployed steppas and maimed workers,
couples that can't afford to have kids,
retired factory workers and pensioners

It's a (sigh) beautiful aspect of love: giving over
and just as good to be relaxed with being given to...
None of that compulsion to reciprocate
or feel obligated...
There's a tv show called The Secret Millionaire which is in that kind of vein. A successful businessperson moves to a community without any of their possessions etc. They meet people that live in that community - people doing community projects and volunteer stuff etc, and spend a couple of weeks with them. After that, the millionaire reveals who they really are and dishes out money to the various people that they've met. There's some truly heartwarming stuff on there, brings a tear to the eye (yes I'm a pussy).

yeah, tho I am often left feeling that they are tight bastards...I saw one a while ago, the guy was chatting nuff bout how he worked hard and earnt a mint, and in the end the guy gave less than £50,000....yeah it sounds a lot but really it nuthin to thes people.

kins83 · Post by **kins83** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:23 pm

eLBe wrote:
kins83 wrote:
SD5 wrote:'d luv to win the lottery
and give it, somehow anonymously,
to heaps of people doin' it tuff...
or just nice people yu know would do worthwhile stuff...
farmers and deros and single parents,
unemployed steppas and maimed workers,
couples that can't afford to have kids,
retired factory workers and pensioners

It's a (sigh) beautiful aspect of love: giving over
and just as good to be relaxed with being given to...
None of that compulsion to reciprocate
or feel obligated...
There's a tv show called The Secret Millionaire which is in that kind of vein. A successful businessperson moves to a community without any of their possessions etc. They meet people that live in that community - people doing community projects and volunteer stuff etc, and spend a couple of weeks with them. After that, the millionaire reveals who they really are and dishes out money to the various people that they've met. There's some truly heartwarming stuff on there, brings a tear to the eye (yes I'm a pussy).

yeah, tho I am often left feeling that they are tight bastards...I saw one a while ago, the guy was chatting nuff bout how he worked hard and earnt a mint, and in the end the guy gave less than £50,000....yeah it sounds a lot but really it nuthin to thes people.

Yeah, it's a tricky one...but then just cos someone has done well for themselves, they shouldn't have to share out more money. There's plenty of minted mateys that give away fuck all of their money - and when they die they leave it to their cat or some bullshit like that. I think that, in the main, the sums of money used as gifts are well thought out relative to the person/organisation that the money is going to.

kins83 · Post by **kins83** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:24 pm

bellybelle wrote:
I wish we had that show. And remember, Kins.....its always better than being a dick.

lol true!

legend4ry · Post by **legend4ry** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:26 pm

love is.......

When you can say "thanks" and mean it..

Non existent

basically.

frebentos · Post by **frebentos** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:26 pm

bellybelle wrote:"If I know what love is, it is because of you."

-Herman Hesse

is this not a quote from "Steppenwolf"?

The author knows what love is because of it (the steppenwolf) which is essentially his tormented and twisted alter ego. Very bleak but, imo, quality novel.

bellybelle · Post by **bellybelle** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:28 pm

frebentos wrote:
bellybelle wrote:"If I know what love is, it is because of you."

-Herman Hesse
is this not a quote from "Steppenwolf"?

The author knows what love is because of it (the steppenwolf) which is essentially his tormented and twisted alter ego. Very bleak but, imo, quality novel.

I think so, though I had a more deliberate reason for including it here.

bellybelle · Post by **bellybelle** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:50 pm

I actually have a Love Meets Science question...

Okay. So there is evidence of the physiological benefits of experiencing love, other than the obvious benefits of frequent lovemaking (assumption granted that people in relationships tend to have more sex than people outside of them). But...I was wondering if anyone has heard of any chemical/biological benefits to offspring that came of these unions.

There are studies that show people in love tend to produce different chemicals in the body and produce more chemicals than those in love. Subjects tend to be healthier and more socially adept. But other than that, I was wondering if there were benefits to the fetus. Like.....are offspring in a love union getting higher percentages of necessary nutrients? Is fetal development increased or perhaps there is a more intricate pattern of development? Are children born into/from a Love union at an advantage over those born in more physically driven scenarios? Perhaps not even that as much as not a deep love? If there are benefits to the individuals coming together, are there unseen biochemical benefits to the fruit of these? Does anyone know? Has anyone seen anything relating to this?

Please link me if you do. I'm very curious.

Thanks.

elbe · Post by **elbe** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:02 pm

hm, interesting... I think it would be very difficult to say prove that it is 'Love' or the feeling of being in Love that effects the lil un.

I guesse if you are in a loveing realationship their are bound to be benifits to the baby, always have someone there to help has got to make things less stressfull etc.

however I would assumer that the feelings love provoke when in a loving relationship, comfort relaxation confidence etc will surely have an impact on a developing child as there is such a strong link.

bellybelle · Post by **bellybelle** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:04 pm

eLBe wrote:hm, interesting... I think it would be very difficult to say prove that it is 'Love' or the feeling of being in Love that effects the lil un.

I guesse if you are in a loveing realationship their are bound to be benifits to the baby, always have someone there to help has got to make things less stressfull etc.

however I would assumer that the feelings love provoke when in a loving relationship, comfort relaxation confidence etc will surely have an impact on a developing child as there is such a strong link.

yeah thats what I was thinking. And I realize that some of the studies that could be done to determine if it was true might be a little unethical....but I'm hoping not all of them are. Gets touchy when it involves using the unborn in scientific experiments.

ch3 · Post by **ch3** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:35 pm

Extinguish my eyes: I still can see you,
deprive my ears of sound: I still can hear you,
and without feet I still can come to you,
and without voice I still can call you.

Sever my arms from me, I still will hold you
with all my heart as with a single hand,
arrest my heart, my brain will keep on beating,
and should the fire at last consume my brain,
the flowing of my blood will carry you.

kozee · Post by **kozee** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:44 pm

i think i'm in love....

slim · Post by **slim** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 7:35 pm

bellybelle wrote:I actually have a Love Meets Science question...

Okay. So there is evidence of the physiological benefits of experiencing love, other than the obvious benefits of frequent lovemaking (assumption granted that people in relationships tend to have more sex than people outside of them). But...I was wondering if anyone has heard of any chemical/biological benefits to offspring that came of these unions.

There are studies that show people in love tend to produce different chemicals in the body and produce more chemicals than those in love. Subjects tend to be healthier and more socially adept. But other than that, I was wondering if there were benefits to the fetus. Like.....are offspring in a love union getting higher percentages of necessary nutrients? Is fetal development increased or perhaps there is a more intricate pattern of development? Are children born into/from a Love union at an advantage over those born in more physically driven scenarios? Perhaps not even that as much as not a deep love? If there are benefits to the individuals coming together, are there unseen biochemical benefits to the fruit of these? Does anyone know? Has anyone seen anything relating to this?

Please link me if you do. I'm very curious. Thanks.

Well, i have heard that love and obsessive compulsive disorder have similar symptoms, similar with bipolar disorder, all of them showing a decrease in seratonin.

Apparently a woman called Lucy Brown has researched this extensively, but when i searched PubMed for "Brown + Love" i couldn't find anything... go figure

Off topic a bit, it's interesting how some people think that believing in love from a purely material point of view, as in it's not some mystical otherworldly force, but a state of mind makes it cheap or less powerful, i don't get that. I've even been called a "heartless cynic", but I do genuinely believe in it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V32g3CwDHzg

Some wise words near the end

bellybelle · Post by **bellybelle** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 7:59 pm

Slim wrote:Well, i have heard that love and obsessive compulsive disorder have similar symptoms, similar with bipolar disorder, all of them showing a decrease in seratonin.

Apparently a woman called Lucy Brown has researched this extensively, but when i searched PubMed for "Brown + Love" i couldn't find anything... go figure

Off topic a bit, it's interesting how some people think that believing in love from a purely material point of view, as in it's not some mystical otherworldly force, but a state of mind makes it cheap or less powerful, i don't get that. I've even been called a "heartless cynic", but I do genuinely believe in it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V32g3CwDHzg

Some wise words near the end

On the first, there are several studies where its documented that there are overall health benefits towards being in love. Generally, immune systems are heartier and higher stimulation in the brain lending to a general wellness. Surely there are some links between OCD and Addiction, like when they can link similar brain activity between being in love and the two previously, because of the body's response to pleasure and pleasurable stimulation. I just wish I could find out if the biological reason for the cultivation of love is more than just guaranteeing propagation of the species. I wonder if there are benefits to the offspring itself. If people who are in Love are healthier, sturdier, stable and equally dynamic; then surely there are biological benefits to being born of two enhanced individuals as opposed to not. But I have no proof.

As for the second, I think one of the reasons people attribute a higher purpose to being in love because without it, it is simply a biochemical reaction designed to further the species. Thats not special. Thats nothing more than a chemical reaction and in comparison to the cornucopia of emotions that are triggered by this lone reaction, it seems to oversimplify its existence, and make it merely a function of being human. All the elations and connections forged are nothing more than a biological synapse designed to make you breed. And if there is all that there is to it, why have Love at all? Why not function merely on choosing the best biological choice for an individual? If thats all Love is....an internal delusion...is that why its so convincing that its ethereal? Do we need to believe there is a higher calling to guarantee we copulate? And are all the biological benefits to being in Love merely an evolutionary step forward? Wouldn't it be a step back?

I think I'd like to believe in it being more than function but I think thats my condition. It feels weird when you think the entirety of what you feel can be reduced to ensuring you have offspring.

fuagofire · Post by **fuagofire** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:09 pm

bellybelle wrote:
On the first, there are several studies where its documented that there are overall health benefits towards being in love. Generally, immune systems are heartier and higher stimulation in the brain lending to a general wellness.

thats all very well untill it goes tits up then shit gets bad

slim · Post by **slim** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:10 pm

bellybelle wrote:
I think I'd like to believe in it being more than function but I think thats my condition. It feels weird when you think the entirety of what you feel can be reduced to ensuring you have offspring.

That doesn't make it any less important for me. Just as when i eat good food, i know i am only experiencing a reward sensation because i am meant to keep eating, doesn't make the food taste any worse.

And no, love as we feel it probably isn't 100% evolutionarily necessary, but in an impersonal, amoral universe, which will kill us fairly horrifically if we leave our little rock with its nice atmosphere and abundant water, it's nice to know that we have "accidentally" developed something like love, no matter how it works or "why" (which is a dodgy term in cases like this anyway)

Now somebody say something pseudoscientific so i can get my cynic on again

bellybelle · Post by **bellybelle** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:11 pm

fuagofire wrote:
bellybelle wrote:
On the first, there are several studies where its documented that there are overall health benefits towards being in love. Generally, immune systems are heartier and higher stimulation in the brain lending to a general wellness.

thats all very well untill it goes tits up then shit gets bad

standard. i'm sure the body knows this too. But even the benefits seem to suggest that the former is the more preferred state for our bodies to be in.

bellybelle · Post by **bellybelle** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:20 pm

Slim wrote:
bellybelle wrote:
I think I'd like to believe in it being more than function but I think thats my condition. It feels weird when you think the entirety of what you feel can be reduced to ensuring you have offspring.

That doesn't make it any less important for me. Just as when i eat good food, i know i am only experiencing a reward sensation because i am meant to keep eating, doesn't make the food taste any worse.

And no, love as we feel it probably isn't 100% evolutionarily necessary, but in an impersonal, amoral universe, which will kill us fairly horrifically if we leave our little rock with its nice atmosphere and abundant water, it's nice to know that we have "accidentally" developed something like love, no matter how it works or "why" (which is a dodgy term in cases like this anyway)

Now somebody say something pseudoscientific so i can get my cynic on again

i don't see it that way. i think of love as being necessary to the existence. no, i'm not going to be able to provide you statistics and data. love is important for empathy. empathy is important for survival within a society. i think it has mystical properties in its ability to unify. for its power and for the numerous demonstrations attributed to this one emotion.

i can see how a scientist or cynic would see it and reduce it but it doesn't seem to put a damper on how awestruck i am at the process. and if i can have a definition of love that wholly fulfills me and you can have security in what has "accidentally" evolved and both can coexist because no matter the origin, the result is the same...and ego has no place in love...does it matter the derivative?

i mean if love feels the same and is as much a catalyst to you as it is to me.....as long as we are benefiting from its presence....why should one have to dominate the other?

love

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