A look at piracy and this forum's outlook on it.

[D3ATHSTEP]

Musicians have MULTIPLE ways to make money, making the actual music is just the first step. I have no problem with giving away my music for free, then trying to make money with live performances and composing for media platforms.

I too have no problem with how the producer wants to reveal his music to the world, but I also believe it should be the artists choice. You seem to be stating that either you apply your business model to production/selling music or deal with never making any money from the industry. You are effectively laying claim to other people's hard work regardless of their intentions, value or invested effort. Which I believe is not just narrow minded, but morally wrong.

I also think the argument has got to it's crux and cyclic point. We look at the sale of creative material from two different and incompatible view points, so I'm going to bow out of this thread.

All right, well I appreciate the honesty. As a closing statement to you, I'm not trying to control how other people make money off of their music, I'm just expressing my personal views and expectations regarding it. People are free to agree or disagree with them as they see fit. If people weren't different then the world would be a boring place to live in.

[garethom]

So it's not piracy because you're atoning for your sins, so to speak? I understand why that would make people feel like it's not piracy, but it most certainly is. The point remains that you didn't pay money to hear that youtube track, and you wouldn't even know about the artist unless someone illegally uploaded that track. Piracy can be your friend. Everyone seems to be so against it here, then they go and post youtube links. I'd just like to call to attention some of the hypocrisy that can be found not only here, but anti-piracy individuals everywhere. And you still pirate movies =P. My point still stands.

Again, where do you take the view that everything is uploaded to youtube illegally? What if I've already paid for the track that I'm posting a youtube link to on this forum? Do you consider that piracy? You seem to have a pretty warped view if you think that posting a youtube video on a forum for promotional purposes is on a par with ripping thousands of tracks.

And what makes you think I pirate movies? I'm sure if you checked out my bedroom and saw my DVD collection, you might think otherwise.

Your point that musicians will have MULTIPLE ways to make money has been completely disproven. Some might not have the ability to dj, or the equipment to perform live, or may disagree morally with licensing their tunes to adverts. I make money from my job, but that's like saying that if I don't want to do 20 hours overtime a week, then I shouldn't moan if the company I work for decided not to pay me at all.

You think the music world owes you something, when it owes you nothing. Especially somebody that doesn't put anything into it.

If you bought a song and upload it to youtube, people who didn't buy the song can hear it. That's piracy. I don't know how you're not grasping that concept. It's like burning a CD or a DVD. My point WASN'T disproven at all. If some people don't want to take advantage of the multiple ways to make money with music, that's their decision. The options didn't go away, the individual(s) is(are) just choosing not to utilize them. That's a personal probelm.

No, I'm not uploading. I bought it, then linked to somebody else's upload. Are you honestly trying to preach to me about piracy? I have an extensive vinyl collection, I pay for downloads, and I'm fortunate in getting a lot of music sent to me, whilst you openly admitted to stealing everything.

And your point is disproven, you claim that it's ok not to spend any money on artists's work because they SHOULD be making money from DJ/playing live, so my analogy still stands. If I'm at work and turn down overtime, I still want to get fucking paid for the work I do during my standard hours.

Look man, if you're gonna carry on stealing shit, then whatever, it's not cool with me, but don't act like you deserve a fucking medal for it. I'm done, discuss it with other people.

[D3ATHSTEP]

So it's not piracy because you're atoning for your sins, so to speak? I understand why that would make people feel like it's not piracy, but it most certainly is. The point remains that you didn't pay money to hear that youtube track, and you wouldn't even know about the artist unless someone illegally uploaded that track. Piracy can be your friend. Everyone seems to be so against it here, then they go and post youtube links. I'd just like to call to attention some of the hypocrisy that can be found not only here, but anti-piracy individuals everywhere. And you still pirate movies =P. My point still stands.

Again, where do you take the view that everything is uploaded to youtube illegally? What if I've already paid for the track that I'm posting a youtube link to on this forum? Do you consider that piracy? You seem to have a pretty warped view if you think that posting a youtube video on a forum for promotional purposes is on a par with ripping thousands of tracks.

And what makes you think I pirate movies? I'm sure if you checked out my bedroom and saw my DVD collection, you might think otherwise.

Your point that musicians will have MULTIPLE ways to make money has been completely disproven. Some might not have the ability to dj, or the equipment to perform live, or may disagree morally with licensing their tunes to adverts. I make money from my job, but that's like saying that if I don't want to do 20 hours overtime a week, then I shouldn't moan if the company I work for decided not to pay me at all.

You think the music world owes you something, when it owes you nothing. Especially somebody that doesn't put anything into it.

If you bought a song and upload it to youtube, people who didn't buy the song can hear it. That's piracy. I don't know how you're not grasping that concept. It's like burning a CD or a DVD. My point WASN'T disproven at all. If some people don't want to take advantage of the multiple ways to make money with music, that's their decision. The options didn't go away, the individual(s) is(are) just choosing not to utilize them. That's a personal probelm.

No, I'm not uploading. I bought it, then linked to somebody else's upload. Are you honestly trying to preach to me about piracy? I have an extensive vinyl collection, I pay for downloads, and I'm fortunate in getting a lot of music sent to me, whilst you openly admitted to stealing everything.

And your point is disproven, you claim that it's ok not to spend any money on artists's work because they SHOULD be making money from DJ/playing live, so my analogy still stands. If I'm at work and turn down overtime, I still want to get fucking paid for the work I do during my standard hours.

Look man, if you're gonna carry on stealing shit, then whatever, it's not cool with me, but don't act like you deserve a fucking medal for it. I'm done, discuss it with other people.

I don't feel as though I've done anything to deserve a medal, just trying to make people think twice about their view on piracy.

[oddfellow]

I would see Piracy as being a bad thing, if it wasn't for the fact that it's improved my life immeasurably.

Growing up round Wigan, the only scenes being supported were Donk, Metal and the more commercial side of things. If I hadn't downloaded en masse (on a shitty dial-up I might add) I wouldn't have come into contact with any of the music / genres I love today, or at least, not as early as I did.

You can argue about the morality of piracy and downloading, but at the end of the day we've reached a point where we can reproduce an item an infinite amount of times for no cost. Someone earlier in the thread compared pirating mp3's to stealing a car, but if had a machine which could replicate a car in the same way you can replicate an mp3 there's no fucking way I'd buy one!

Saying that, even during the days when I was downloading, and up to this day, I spend more money on music then anything else (living costs and weed addiction exempt).

[Figment]

Took a brief read of this, decided to post because it was interesting.

Not 100% familiar with copyright laws outside of my own country (Australia) but that is beside the point.

By the looks of this, you are trying to justify actually physically downloading good/high quality rips (generally speaking, buy album, be the hero and upload so everyone can cop it for free) by having the "well, by using youtube as a source of promotion, we are already breaking laws, so why not break some more!" attitude.
now if you ask me, although both technically breaking the laws of copyright, there is a difference in downloading a high quality, full length rip, and sharing a youtube link, or even uploading a tune to youtube, obviously the latter being frowned upon a tad more if there is no recognition given to the artist/label the specific tune belongs too.

Personally, i do have some similar feelings, but that is also based on my current position in production/music, at the moment, i really couldn't give a shit if any music i put out got ripped from my soundcloud etc, because at the end of the day, although someone has stolen from me, it also means that someone is listening to my music.
BUT, if i got to the stage where i did release a tune on a label, or, make a tune that got a fair bit of hype, that i didn't intend to give out for free, then i would be rather annoyed to find out, that 1000 people had a copy of my tune, and only 40 people had paid for it.

in ending, i have an example, i'll use Skream in my example, because the possibility of him/benga/magnetic man making cocaine loads of money has previously been mentioned on this thread.
Skream has given a shit load of tunes for free.
/endexample

respect the artists you listen too, if you like music buy it.

[brasco]

respect the artists you listen too, if you like music buy it.

not a hard concept really is it

[D3ATHSTEP]

respect the artists you listen too, if you like music buy it.

not a hard concept really is it

I just think it's entirely possible to respect music you listen to without buying it. I'm against people claiming buying music is the only way to show respect; or saying that I don't respect the music if I pirate it. That couldn't be further from the truth. Music has been my entire life. I'm a self-taught classical and metal guitarist of nine years now, and I just started getting into production. I have nothing BUT respect for the music, I just have conflicting views regarding how I can show that respect.

[oddfellow]

respect the artists you listen too, if you like music buy it.

not a hard concept really is it

Unless you haven't got the disposable income. In that case would "respect the artist you listen to, buy music if and when you can, and go to watch them when they play local" be more valid?

This seems to be the case more and more these days and in a way its a good thing. Paying an artist for actually performing for you.

[Figment]

respect the artists you listen too, if you like music buy it.

not a hard concept really is it

haha, nah you wouldn't think so, but OP might say otherwise ;(

[Juice Terry]

I don't see that being skint has anything to do with it... If you can't afford it, go without.

[D3ATHSTEP]

I don't see that being skint has anything to do with it... If you can't afford it, go without.

If you can't afford music, don't listen to it? You're missing the entire point of music.

[brasco]

I don't see that being skint has anything to do with it... If you can't afford it, go without.

If you can't afford music, don't listen to it? You're missing the entire point of music.

no, you can stream it to your hearts content via youtube, spotify etc, until you can scrap your pennies together to afford the 79p or whatever for a download

[Juice Terry]

I don't see that being skint has anything to do with it... If you can't afford it, go without.

If you can't afford music, don't listen to it? You're missing the entire point of music.

No I'm not... I value music...

The point is that there is plenty of ways to listen to music legally without paying for it... And it's you that's missing the point.

[D3ATHSTEP]

I don't see that being skint has anything to do with it... If you can't afford it, go without.

If you can't afford music, don't listen to it? You're missing the entire point of music.

No I'm not... I value music...

The point is that there is plenty of ways to listen to music legally without paying for it... And it's you that's missing the point.

I think you are missing the point of music, because throughout history, music has been this huge taboo and caused people to think differently and rebel. Music used to be about doing something wild and against the grain, and now you're saying you need to be prim and proper and not break the law? I don't understand. What happened to the "You gotta fight for your right to party" mentality? If there's anyone to blame for piracy becoming popular, it's probably music itself for instilling the moral that not following authority is okay.

[Figment]

respect the artists you listen too, if you like music buy it.

not a hard concept really is it

I just think it's entirely possible to respect music you listen to without buying it. I'm against people claiming buying music is the only way to show respect; or saying that I don't respect the music if I pirate it. That couldn't be further from the truth. Music has been my entire life. I'm a self-taught classical and metal guitarist of nine years now, and I just started getting into production. I have nothing BUT respect for the music, I just have conflicting views regarding how I can show that respect.

It is definitely possible to respect music and the artist in other ways other than just buying their music, i may not be reading 100% accurately, but i don't believe i have read a post yet that says to me "BUYING ARTISTS MUSIC IS THE ONLY WAY TO POSSIBLY SHOW THEM RESPECT"

I think you are missing the point of music, because throughout history, music has been this huge taboo and caused people to think differently and rebel. Music used to be about doing something wild and against the grain, and now you're saying you need to be prim and proper and not break the law? I don't understand. What happened to the "You gotta fight for your right to party" mentality? If there's anyone to blame for piracy becoming popular, it's probably music itself for instilling the moral that not following authority is okay.

Without trying to seem like i am making an attack on you, i think that is one of the silliest things i have read.
that is the lyrics to one song, which was sold, and bought by many people in the world

[robbiej]

who needs facts or reason or logic. Deathstep has his personal opinion and thats all that matters. In the words of Duncan Bannatyne..... Im out.

[Juice Terry]

There's no point in continuing this, people have given you a reasoned argument and you have chosen to ignore it.

[D3ATHSTEP]

respect the artists you listen too, if you like music buy it.

not a hard concept really is it

I just think it's entirely possible to respect music you listen to without buying it. I'm against people claiming buying music is the only way to show respect; or saying that I don't respect the music if I pirate it. That couldn't be further from the truth. Music has been my entire life. I'm a self-taught classical and metal guitarist of nine years now, and I just started getting into production. I have nothing BUT respect for the music, I just have conflicting views regarding how I can show that respect.

It is definitely possible to respect music and the artist in other ways other than just buying their music, i may not be reading 100% accurately, but i don't believe i have read a post yet that says to me "BUYING ARTISTS MUSIC IS THE ONLY WAY TO POSSIBLY SHOW THEM RESPECT"

I think you are missing the point of music, because throughout history, music has been this huge taboo and caused people to think differently and rebel. Music used to be about doing something wild and against the grain, and now you're saying you need to be prim and proper and not break the law? I don't understand. What happened to the "You gotta fight for your right to party" mentality? If there's anyone to blame for piracy becoming popular, it's probably music itself for instilling the moral that not following authority is okay.

Without trying to seem like i am making an attack on you, i think that is one of the silliest things i have read.
that is the lyrics to one song, which was sold, and bought by many people in the world

It is the lyrics to a song, but they're true. Look at punk rock when it started, that was just about being obnoxious and spreading their message of mayhem. Look and some early grindcore, look at some death metal. Those genres were about having FUN, not obeying the law. I haven't followed much electronic music over the years so I don't know if it's different, but punk especially was basically created in order to say "fuck you" to authority, and a lot of music followed that mentality. That's more or less the mentality I have with music. There are no rules with music, and I couldn't give less of a shit what the law is regarding how I'm "supposed" to attain music I want to hear. I'll do whatever I want to, because that's the message music has given me over the years.

[D3ATHSTEP]

There's no point in continuing this, people have given you a reasoned argument and you have chosen to ignore it.

I haven't ignored anyone, I've said multiple times that I understand and respect where people are coming from, but this discussion is just me expressing my opinion and seeing people's views regarding it. Most don't agree, but I've seen a few posts so far that semi-understand my point of view. I'm satisfied knowing that some people realize the hypocrisy that can take place here.

[robbiej]

i kow i said im out but really " I've seen a few posts so far that semi-understand my point of view" makes you satisfied lolz. and then you choose to ignore or at least not consider the arguments made against you. this is why everyones leaving your discussion, youre not looking for debate youre looking for validation.