serious discussion about casual racism in europe

[joeki]

In some cases, there's a very thin line between realism and racism.

Our country has been a stir with a new documentary.

Dutch and French speaking people should really watch this. There's also one interview in English starting at around 8 minutes.
http://www.deredactie.be/permalink/1.1380777

It's called 'Femme De La Rue' by Sofie Peters.

It's about being a Female in some areas of the city of Brussels. Where all females are constantly being hassled and degraded by men of North African Decent. Now, not all North Africans are like this, claiming that, that would be racist. But 99% of the perpetrators are in fact men of Morrocon, Tunisian, Algerian etc. decent.
I think she addresses a racially sensitive issue with a nuanced touch. Would you want your daughter or wife adressed like that.

It is also important that the issue is limited to certain burrows of Brussels, Antwerp and Mechelen, three Belgian cities with a large population of Maghrabian citizens.
Again, recommended if you speak Dutch or French (you'll be able to understand parts of it as the conversations are usually in French).
These women rights are clearly violated though.

[Dead Rats]

It's not relevant to the thread in any way, but apart from the Tin Tin head sign, Brussels is a bit shit. Nice bar or two, but the city seems lifeless.

Anyway, that's me.

edit: the atmosphere here at night there is a bit nervous...unnerving as well.

[Genevieve]

Ain't workin' for me. Though stuff from deredactie worked for me before so it can't be because I'm in the Netherlands.

[joeki]

Damn, I checked the link, that's the correct one.
But any way, the trailer is on youtube at least.



And an interview with Sofie In English here.

http://www.sponsume.com/project/femme-de-la-rue

[faultier]

It's about being a Female in some areas of the city of Brussels. Where all females are constantly being hassled and degraded by men of North African Decent. Now, not all North Africans are like this, claiming that, that would be racist. But 99% of the perpetrators are in fact men of Morrocon, Tunisian, Algerian etc. decent.
I think she addresses a racially sensitive issue with a nuanced touch. Would you want your daughter or wife adressed like that.

It is also important that the issue is limited to certain burrows of Brussels, Antwerp and Mechelen, three Belgian cities with a large population of Maghrabian citizens.
Again, recommended if you speak Dutch or French (you'll be able to understand parts of it as the conversations are usually in French).
These women rights are clearly violated though.

this is kind of a slippery slope though... i mean i see what they are coming from as i lived in several european cities where these kind of behaviours are indeed common

but i don't see how this is an ethnic issue...

"99% of the perpetrators are in fact men of Morrocon, Tunisian, Algerian etc. decent" where did you get that figure from ? i don't have any percentage to give but i'm positive i have seen white boys that grew up in christian families have this kind of disrespectful behaviour as well

"It is also important that the issue is limited to certain burrows" yeah it's almost as if these kind of behaviours where a consequence of living in a certain neighbourhood, in a certain social environment, instead of being a consequence of being of Morrocon, Tunisian, Algerian etc. decent...

[joeki]

I agree that's what I was trying to say.

I highly doubt women walking in Marrakesh would be treated in the same manner. That's exactly my point. Their social environment dictates their behaviour, not their ethnicity but that is a sensitive and thin line. But in the documentary it is indeed shown that 99% of the people were of foreign decent, and that is confirmed by women of the same etnicity. I think, depending on what neighbourhood you're in, you'll undoubtedly have white trash talking to you like that. But not at the frequency of once per minute.

[particle-jim]

Just had a phonecall at work from a social worker with a very thick african accent (dont ask me where in africa, I'm not an expert on foreign accents) she mistook me for my manager and said "you all sound the same"... Is this racism, i'm pretty certain that if I mistook her for a colleague of hers with a similar accent and said "you all sound the same" I would get accused of racism and probably loose my job.

I don't even sound anything like my manager

You're all racist

[Perej]

I agree that's what I was trying to say.

I highly doubt women walking in Marrakesh would be treated in the same manner. That's exactly my point. Their social environment dictates their behaviour, not their ethnicity but that is a sensitive and thin line. But in the documentary it is indeed shown that 99% of the people were of foreign decent, and that is confirmed by women of the same etnicity. I think, depending on what neighbourhood you're in, you'll undoubtedly have white trash talking to you like that. But not at the frequency of once per minute.

This happens in loads of places because multiculturalism just doesn't work in a lot of ways. People who come to Europe from the third world come from an entirely different plain socially speaking. They don't have the same values or customs as many Europeans do in a lot of cases (not all may I add, before I get blasted with 'BIGOT' 'RACIST' comments).

When me and my mate went to Brussels on the way to Outlook last year my mate got mugged within 10 minutes of stepping off the Eurostar by a North African guy. When we got on the metro to go across to our hostel we didn't see any Belgians, they were all North African, Turkish etc. It didn't feel like Europe.. pretty weird.

It's not about colour though or religion, it's just where you are brought up that makes you act in these ways. If those men were born and raised in Brussels for example and were schooled there etc they probably wouldn't act in those ways toward women.

[Perej]

Just had a phonecall at work from a social worker with a very thick african accent (dont ask me where in africa, I'm not an expert on foreign accents) she mistook me for my manager and said "you all sound the same"... Is this racism, i'm pretty certain that if I mistook her for a colleague of hers with a similar accent and said "you all sound the same" I would get accused of racism and probably loose my job.

I don't even sound anything like my manager

You're all racist

Racism works both ways trust

[Perej]

When's europe going to have a black king?

Ta-dow, thread is over.

europe doesn't have a king u dumb tnuc

[faultier]

"they were all North African, Turkish etc. It didn't feel like Europe.. pretty weird." i don't know man, i grew up in paris which is equally multicultural, i understand london's the same, but to me thats what europe is supposed to be

i moved to frankfurt a few years ago, and one of my first thought was "where do they hide all the ethnic minorities?"

also the guy who mugged your friend was probably brought up in brussels you know...
i guess a more salient point would be in which part of brussels were they raised ? some clean residential neighbourhood with gardens and proper schools and all ? or some shitty council housing in a sordid neighbourhood with nothing but subpar schools ?

[mIrReN]

When's europe going to have a black king?

Europe doesn't have a king

must be one of those who think Europe is a country

[wub]

i moved to frankfurt a few years ago, and one of my first thought was "where do they hide all the ethnic minorities?"

When I moved from Harrow (North London) to Basingstoke (Hampshire) when I was seven, on coming out of school on my first day apparently my first words to my Mum were "They're all white!" as I'd come from a school were white kids in my class were a minority to somewhere where there was like one black kid in the whole school and everyone knew them.

[Pada]

Its in our DNA to be racist i think.

Might be in yours but not in mine mate

[magma]

Its in our DNA to be racist i think.

Might be in yours but not in mine mate

Racist.

[JBoy]

I like to eat british bacon, does that make me racist?

[particle-jim]

I like to eat british bacon, does that make me racist?

you're a pork racist yeah

[Perej]

"they were all North African, Turkish etc. It didn't feel like Europe.. pretty weird." i don't know man, i grew up in paris which is equally multicultural, i understand london's the same, but to me thats what europe is supposed to be

i moved to frankfurt a few years ago, and one of my first thought was "where do they hide all the ethnic minorities?"

also the guy who mugged your friend was probably brought up in brussels you know...
i guess a more salient point would be in which part of brussels were they raised ? some clean residential neighbourhood with gardens and proper schools and all ? or some shitty council housing in a sordid neighbourhood with nothing but subpar schools ?

How do you know he was brought up in Brussels?

You can't blame all types of behaviour on where they were raised either, sometimes it's just in peoples culture.

I don't get why people feel like Europe is 'supposed' to be like this. Why? I know that Paris is multi-cutural etc but there's a point at which it's no longer multicultural in certain places because it's all black or all Asian or all of another race, so how can you call these places 'multi-cultural'.

This is what it's like in parts of London like Southall. It's not multi-cultural anymore.. it's just people of Asian heritage for the most part, so it's not like you can praise London as being an advert for multiculturalism because even though the principle in itself is sound, in reality there is a lot of straight up segregation.


And no, it's not in our dna to be racist, that's a horrible thought.

[idontreallygiveashit]

get em out

[faultier]

How do you know he was brought up in Brussels?

i dont, this is why i used the word 'probably'

You can't blame all types of behaviour on where they were raised either, sometimes it's just in peoples culture.

casual racism right here imo

This is what it's like in parts of London like Southall. It's not multi-cultural anymore.. it's just people of Asian heritage for the most part, so it's not like you can praise London as being an advert for multiculturalism because even though the principle in itself is sound, in reality there is a lot of straight up segregation.

cant say about london, but in paris and its suburbs, the only 'segregation' i experienced is some neighbourhoods are where rich people live and some neighbourhoods are where poor people live