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lol sounds like you go to shit nights out if your only hearing the same songs
http://www.mixcloud.com/headsupmcr/heads-up-live-at-the-ram-shackle-manchester-12-04-14-5-hour-takeover/
listen to some of this. serious crate digging by small time djs that im mates with.
not even much mixing for a lot of it.
this isn't pandering to a crowd playing the same songs. this isd crowd pleasing, crate digging original djing. how is it not an art?

^I will take a listen. And some of us have to take what we can get as far as nights, ya know? I right in the middle of an area that has a ton of colleges and univ. campuses. There are easily two dozen in a fifty mile radius. So all the nightlife is centered around that crowd mostly. And saying they all play the same twenty songs all night is a bit of a hyperbole, but its like no one takes any risks with the tunes they play, know what I mean? Its all pretty standard.

Personally, I am not trying to argue that DJing isnt an art. I am just kind of bummed more people are not taking advantage of the technology we have. I will always go listen to DJs play vinyl, but meh...I just imagine what could be done and it seems not many are doing any of that.

DJing is like putting together an art gallery of nice paintings. You can do a good job as a curator to the point of bordering on art, but I don't think it really qualifies. People will come to the gallery to appreciate the painters, not you. You're an accessory to art.

Like I said earlier, you can make anything into an art really. I could turn putting toppings on a hotdog into an art. But hotdog toppings aren't art by default and I don't think DJing is either. Fundamentally it's no different than a teenage girl making an iTunes playlist for her roadtrip. I doubt you'd try to argue that's art. DJing has a few extra technical layers that are mostly mitigated by technology now. The reason people get so defensive about doing everything by hand is because that's the last thread that separates them from iTunes jockeys. It's a skill, not an artform. Some people are really really skilled at it, and if you're at the point where you're generating most of the content via effects, manipulation, cue juggling, and mashing together different clips, it starts to get into collage territory. But just mixing in and out of tracks isn't art, sorry. You might be creating the meta content, the overarching storyline, but playlists don't shake asses, drums and bass do.

Yeah like I understand the vinyl purity perspective and I see why that's attractive and I respect all the talented DJs out there, didn't mean to slate yall if that's how it came across I was more talking about DJs that don't have talent but talk as if they do.

But I personally just see no reason to not take advantage of the technology we have. Maybe sync buttons make things too easy but a grid? Really? I've just never heard anyone criticize someone for using equipment that has a grid before. And I think it's a bit ridiculous to tell other people what format they should use. Many ppl don't have 100% control over what they use.

SunkLo wrote:DJing is like putting together an art gallery of nice paintings. You can do a good job as a curator to the point of bordering on art, but I don't think it really qualifies. People will come to the gallery to appreciate the painters, not you. You're an accessory to art.

100% agree with this

I also don't really understand why if you are a DJ you wouldn't at least try to produce, but each to their own.

This is an interesting discussion, some good points on both sides. I'm a bit on the fence in this discussion, so my post might seem self-contradictory at times but bear with me. I've played a lot of shitty commercial top 40 nights in the past (ridiculous money and free drinks all night), and I've always sort of struck a balance. I used a mixtrack pro and Virtual DJ, mainly because technical ability isn't that important for nights like those. It's more about what you play rather than how to a certain extent, although I did my best to try slip in some good underground stuff and at least try expand people's horizons a tiny bit.Generally though, people tend not to give a shit about 20 minute blends and the narrative of a set when theyre off their tits on meow trying to finger some scratty bird in the middle of the dancefloor.

This is the total opposite to how I approach bookings where I'm booked under my artist name. I use cds or usb sticks (biggups 850 crew, favourite decks to play on) and only use serato with the trusty mixtrack as an absolute last resort. The key difference is that nights where people have paid to see me play (few and far between though they may be), people are paying to hear my taste in good shit presented in a creative way thatll make them dance. which is where the element of syncing like fuck and going batshit dropping tunes in left right and centre like i did at the pop nights goes out the chuffing window. People are paying to hear new music presented in a skillful way, rather than the same old shit in the same old way. Mainstream club-goers buzz off familiarity and repetition, whereas people who go to alternative nights prefer to hear shit they've never heard before, which for me explains when and where it's appropriate to use different methods, and why mainstream clubs are always shit. /rant

yeah i agree with you here cheeky

DJoe wrote:yeah i agree with you here cheeky

thanks man, its an opinion formed from a good couple of years of destroying my soul playing shit top 40 music. Didn't take me long to realise however, that unless you're a total fucking loudmouthed jeb end, you go pretty much unnoticed all night (bar pissheads asking for songs which were swiftly given a solid reply of fuck off). I ended up usually going halves on some mandy with a mate and bringing a couple of joints with me which the whole evening slightly more pleasant, gurning something savage whilst mixing notwithstanding.

DJoe wrote:There are good djs and good producers. there are bad producers and bad djs. theres plenty of sick producers who are shit djs and vice versa.

Even though it's a very general statement that sums about perfectly my point of view. The rest of the debate of whether DJing should be considered an artform is just rethoric on what your definition of art is.

The comment on Theo Parrish made me laugh as well, but actually Dubunked, you should read a Theo Parrish interview on DJing, it would probably help you understand the point of view of old school/vinyl DJs. I'm essentially a vinyl DJ myself, I don't have anything against technology, I even bought a CDJ a couple of months ago so that I could play digi only stuff and for the convenience of it, that doesn't necessarily means I want to take advantage of every possible new technology to include it in my mixes. Some people do amazing mixes with just two turntables and a basic mixer.

On the other hand, I'm fine with people DJing only on digital and adding lots of effects loops etc to their mix, as long as it's relevant, well-executed and bringing some "added value" to the mix.

Anyway, lots of DJing tools, lots of DJing styles, in my book can only be a good thing. Worst thing that could happen would be for everybody to DJ the same way don't you think?

My deez on these nuts is, I'll listen to Mistabishi's pre-recorded set cuz.
I could careless.... play an already mixed CD, I just wanna trip out on music wit da bass pound me wit dat MASSIVE sound system like Kell Well's anal scenes while smoking blunts n shit ni gga.

Last thing I can't stand is fucking sound FX interrupting to indicate a transfer to the next song wit each song just playing a minute each. Fuck dat shit cuz.

I do be zoning out tho.


Stay Black
Western & 105th

Many of them aren't real DJs. They are just selectors. Real DJ is manipulating with records (turtablism lol). These guys whom just selects and plays, mixes tunes by tunes.

Cheeky wrote:This is an interesting discussion, some good points on both sides. I'm a bit on the fence in this discussion, so my post might seem self-contradictory at times but bear with me. I've played a lot of shitty commercial top 40 nights in the past (ridiculous money and free drinks all night), and I've always sort of struck a balance. I used a mixtrack pro and Virtual DJ, mainly because technical ability isn't that important for nights like those. It's more about what you play rather than how to a certain extent, although I did my best to try slip in some good underground stuff and at least try expand people's horizons a tiny bit.Generally though, people tend not to give a shit about 20 minute blends and the narrative of a set when theyre off their tits on meow trying to finger some scratty bird in the middle of the dancefloor.

This is the total opposite to how I approach bookings where I'm booked under my artist name. I use cds or usb sticks (biggups 850 crew, favourite decks to play on) and only use serato with the trusty mixtrack as an absolute last resort. The key difference is that nights where people have paid to see me play (few and far between though they may be), people are paying to hear my taste in good shit presented in a creative way thatll make them dance. which is where the element of syncing like fuck and going batshit dropping tunes in left right and centre like i did at the pop nights goes out the chuffing window. People are paying to hear new music presented in a skillful way, rather than the same old shit in the same old way. Mainstream club-goers buzz off familiarity and repetition, whereas people who go to alternative nights prefer to hear shit they've never heard before, which for me explains when and where it's appropriate to use different methods, and why mainstream clubs are always shit. /rant

yeah that is kinda contradictory lol

you say at underground nights they pay to hear new music presented in a creative way, and mainstream nights wanna see the same shit presented in the same way. How is manually beatmatching two records together a creative and not the same old way? haha, surely using sync and having loads of mad shit going on is more of a different way of presenting?

Still tho I aint saying beatmatching two records is shit, thats what id more prefer lol, but I dont give a fuck how they are mixing just aslong as they arent just moving the pitch up to 140 on each tune and calling it beatmatching.

imo, a real Disc Jockey knows how to beatmatch like the back of his hand, but more so can also scratch and beat juggle...RJD2 is the most recent DJ I've seen live...what a show that was..dude knows how to D J...imo of course

Beatmatching today has gone a little by the wayside, given that most digital interfaces come with a sync feature...In my experience, if you have two legit (as in purchased) 320 kbps tracks, within 10 bpm, most digital mixing programs are pretty dependable...therefore diminishing the ability to beatmatch the more traditional way...

Toolman4 wrote:imo, a real Disc Jockey knows how to beatmatch like the back of his hand, but more so can also scratch and beat juggle...RJD2 is the most recent DJ I've seen live...what a show that was..dude knows how to D J...imo of course

Beatmatching today has gone a little by the wayside, given that most digital interfaces come with a sync feature...In my experience, if you have two legit (as in purchased) 320 kbps tracks, within 10 bpm, most digital mixing programs are pretty dependable...therefore diminishing the ability to beatmatch the more traditional way...

wait.... in your EXPERIENCE????????



HOW DARE YOU USE TRACKTER YOU FILTHY TRAITOR!

I look at DJing as people are listening to your set for your taste which you have refined over however much time, ability to invoke emotion/reaction and your ability to create a journey.

I look at production as people are listening to your compositions for your taste which you have refined over however much time, ability to invoke emotion/reaction and your ability to create a journey.

I think a big thing people are missing (at least for me anyway), is syncing tracks and playing with loops and whatever is boring to ME as the DJ. I'm also wondering what are people doing with controllers/software that isn't doable via CDJs?

I think the elephant in the room is the fact that these guys are making it look easy.

Btw, just to counter the last 5 pages of commentary, actually Laidback (the DJ in the middle) has IEM's on.

Wireless in ear headphones. You can see em when he turns his head.

gen_ wrote:Btw, just to counter the last 5 pages of commentary, actually Laidback (the DJ in the middle) has IEM's on.

Wireless in ear headphones. You can see em when he turns his head.

Aren't those earplugs?

It says so in the replies, I'm just trying to find out now if there's any truth to it right now.

EDIT: was kinda trying to put it out as a theory to move the convo toward that

Maybe something like these: