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Battle Gong wrote:i think the problem is that ToneDef is not saying what people WANT 2hear. However, IMO, what he is saying is exactly how it IS, and what everyone else is doing is arguing how it SHOULD be. Dont confuse these 2 things.

You can only say that is how it IS because so many accept that particular idea of the real. It's self defeating and locks you into someone else's system and idea of how things should be. Of course you can work within that framework but by the same token don't confuse dismal capitalist realism with how things actually ARE.

masstronaut wrote:

Battle Gong wrote:i think the problem is that ToneDef is not saying what people WANT 2hear. However, IMO, what he is saying is exactly how it IS, and what everyone else is doing is arguing how it SHOULD be. Dont confuse these 2 things.

You can only say that is how it IS because so many accept that particular idea of the real. It's self defeating and locks you into someone else's system and idea of how things should be. Of course you can work within that framework but by the same token don't confuse dismal capitalist realism with how things actually ARE.

when u try change the system, the system changes u

good point tho still. work within the system to make ur own...

ozols man wrote:when u try change the system, the system changes u

Well I wasn't suggesting trying to change 'the system' necessarily, just don't accept that it represents fundamental reality. Or something like that.

masstronaut wrote:

ozols man wrote:when u try change the system, the system changes u

Well I wasn't suggesting trying to change 'the system' necessarily, just don't accept that it represents fundamental reality. Or something like that.

i suggest anarchy mate

way too much discussion going on. dont even care to read everything. but just to put my 2 cents in...

i cant wait for the 5th. im def anticipating this release. the last one was amazing. wanna hear more. and the next one will be even better...i dont think anything this man makes can be bad. def very moody music. and a little darker. the kode 9 mix of the new album is insanely moving. so yes. i will listen. and buy and enjoy the new release. cheers to him for being so amazing and able to keep all that inside to himself and only close friends and fam...i think everyone should do this...i like the whole secret identity thing.

ozols man wrote:i suggest anarchy mate

Why? Please explain why you are suggesting anarchy with reference to what I was typing.

Anyway I prefer bananarchy - it tastes better. Fair trade organic of course.

masstronaut wrote:

Battle Gong wrote:i think the problem is that ToneDef is not saying what people WANT 2hear. However, IMO, what he is saying is exactly how it IS, and what everyone else is doing is arguing how it SHOULD be. Dont confuse these 2 things.

You can only say that is how it IS because so many accept that particular idea of the real. It's self defeating and locks you into someone else's system and idea of how things should be. Of course you can work within that framework but by the same token don't confuse dismal capitalist realism with how things actually ARE.

all fine words in the abstract. but what does this paragraph actually mean?

Also, how "ARE" things, actually, if not dismal and capitalist?


Oh, and yo, when I say "accept" that this is how things are in my post above, I dont mean just give in and sell out, I mean be aware of the situation. no chance of combating something if you are in denial of its very existence.

Battle Gong wrote:

masstronaut wrote:

Battle Gong wrote:i think the problem is that ToneDef is not saying what people WANT 2hear. However, IMO, what he is saying is exactly how it IS, and what everyone else is doing is arguing how it SHOULD be. Dont confuse these 2 things.

You can only say that is how it IS because so many accept that particular idea of the real. It's self defeating and locks you into someone else's system and idea of how things should be. Of course you can work within that framework but by the same token don't confuse dismal capitalist realism with how things actually ARE.

all fine words in the abstract. but what does this paragraph actually mean?

Also, how "ARE" things, actually, if not dismal and capitalist?

Things 'are' how we make them. If we all believe and accept the world to be a certain way it will be more likely to continue to be so. This is the bind we find ourselves in.

Battle Gong wrote:Oh, and yo, when I say "accept" that this is how things are in my post above, I dont mean just give in and sell out, I mean be aware of the situation. no chance of combating something if you are in denial of its very existence.

I know what you meant - and I think we basically agree. It's not as if you can deny the situation for very long though anyway, so why worry about it being a problem? Also directly 'combating the system' usually just makes it stronger by reinforcing it's reality and giving it information about resistance.

Basically I'll take the idealists and romantics over the so called realists every time because realism got us where we are now and will keep us there until we can realise that the way it IS is just as much a construct as how we think it should be.

yeh but romantics and idealists just sit around smoking weed and talking about systems and their emotions all day. its all about having an acceptable persona in the eyes of society. that way u can brainwash ppl with ur own radical ideals and no one will notice.

ozols man wrote:yeh but romantics and idealists just sit around smoking weed and talking about systems and their emotions all day.

They do? Doesn't sound very romantic or ideal to me. But not so bad really - it's better than buying and selling useless crap or exploiting poor people. Maaaaaaaan.

ozols man wrote:its all about having an acceptable persona in the eyes of society. that way u can brainwash ppl with ur own radical ideals and no one will notice.

I see what you're saying but taking 'having an acceptable persona in the eyes of society' as a starting point is pretty shaky ground to be on IMO. Better base your persona on your own personal truth. And I'd rather people studied and came to their own conclusions, although a bit of brainwashing never hurt anyone.

- double post

Lets all get together and start an emo bookgroup!

First topic of discussion:

"Foucauldian analysis of Burial wihtin the context of hegemonic marketing discourses"

I'll bring the tea and biscuits, someone else can sort out the razor blades.

gravious wrote:Burial

Who?

good grief

big up burial. still not heard any of it. debating whether to go to fwd>>.. though the system at plastic people is temping I still kind of still want my first experience of the album to be at home, from start to finish

gravious wrote:Lets all get together and start an emo bookgroup!

First topic of discussion:

"Foucauldian analysis of Burial wihtin the context of hegemonic marketing discourses"

I'll bring the tea and biscuits, someone else can sort out the razor blades.

i'll do it, got some left over from the last party i had.

forensix (mcr) wrote:

gravious wrote:Lets all get together and start an emo bookgroup!

First topic of discussion:

"Foucauldian analysis of Burial wihtin the context of hegemonic marketing discourses"

I'll bring the tea and biscuits, someone else can sort out the razor blades.

i'll do it, got some left over from the last party i had.[/quote

Around May 2006 that party wasn't it?

LEQ wrote:

forensix (mcr) wrote:

gravious wrote:Lets all get together and start an emo bookgroup!

First topic of discussion:

"Foucauldian analysis of Burial wihtin the context of hegemonic marketing discourses"

I'll bring the tea and biscuits, someone else can sort out the razor blades.

i'll do it, got some left over from the last party i had.

Around May 2006 that party wasn't it?

please stop calling you know it upsets my mother

LEQ wrote:

forensix (mcr) wrote:

gravious wrote:Lets all get together and start an emo bookgroup!

First topic of discussion:

"Foucauldian analysis of Burial wihtin the context of hegemonic marketing discourses"

I'll bring the tea and biscuits, someone else can sort out the razor blades.

i'll do it, got some left over from the last party i had.

Around May 2006 that party wasn't it?

Yes. Unfortunately there were no survivors.

I thought it would have been the razor blades, but apparently a particulary large discourse lept out of the hosts' cupboard and engulfed everyone in the room. It also nicked the sofa, putting paid to any further book groups.

But we shall not let their loss be in vain!

Join me at Brian's Vegan cofee shop tonight at 8. Soya lattes on me.

gravious wrote:

LEQ wrote:

forensix (mcr) wrote:

gravious wrote:Lets all get together and start an emo bookgroup!

First topic of discussion:

"Foucauldian analysis of Burial wihtin the context of hegemonic marketing discourses"

I'll bring the tea and biscuits, someone else can sort out the razor blades.

i'll do it, got some left over from the last party i had.

Around May 2006 that party wasn't it?

Yes. Unfortunately there were no survivors.

I thought it would have been the razor blades, but apparently a particulary large discourse lept out of the hosts' cupboard and engulfed everyone in the room. It also nicked the sofa, putting paid to any further book groups.

But we shall not let their loss be in vain!

Join me at Brian's Vegan cofee shop tonight at 8. Soya lattes on me.

decaf?

Yawn.

There go the tedious realists. I think I've found that 'reactionary bollocks' you were looking for UFO.