Dubstep Forum Co-operative Label

cede · Post by **cede** » Sun May 07, 2006 9:15 pm

elgato wrote:
CEDE wrote:What we could possibly do is this - set up some sort of online shop for the label. everyone can access it world wide, but we have two shipping centers.

One in the US and one in the UK.
Definately man, I think there are certainly ways to avoid this problem about shipping charges. Were you thinking in terms of pressing all in one then a bulk shipment to the other (cost of which would be incorporated into original budget, so as to avoid overpricing to one set of customers) or two seperate pressings? Would this be feasible or would it bump up the price just as much due to the second test-pressing and mastering charges?

Well to press at one plant and then ship to two separate places would add a decent amount extra to the basic costs.

What could be done is one mastering session, in which two masters were made (either 2 CDr or 2 direct to metal)

Then you bring one master to a plant in the UK, and then the other to a plant in the US. Produce a 1000 at each one if you want a total run of 2000.

auralassassin · Post by **auralassassin** » Sun May 07, 2006 9:20 pm

that sounds good. As far as stateside Distro goes, http://www.nu-urbanmusic.co.uk/

I know they do a TON of stuff in the UK for DnB, but as far as stateside, they are tops.

ramadanman · Post by **ramadanman** » Sun May 07, 2006 9:29 pm

sounds like a good idea pressing in the us and the uk - wanna keep costs down for you guys over there.

not sure we'd be able to shift quite as many as 2000 units though...

elgato · Post by **elgato** » Sun May 07, 2006 9:30 pm

so that seems like an excellent idea, after all it is about making sure that the music gets out to as many people as possible for the best price possible

So, there seem to be a great number of issues which still need to be discussed in terms of moving forwards. I think perhaps one of the most important tasks is to establish a rough budget, so as to understand what kind of finance is going to be required to get a press up and running. This is something i have not the first idea about to be honest...

ramadanman · Post by **ramadanman** » Sun May 07, 2006 9:36 pm

so ok, say 1500 are pressed.

each record sells for £5.99

1500 x 5.99 = £8,985

ok, EXTREMELY hypothetical situation here, that means we technically have this amount of money to spend....

m9918868 · Post by **m9918868** » Sun May 07, 2006 9:37 pm

dubway wrote:what about digital (internet mp3) label"? (seems suitable for forum label.. for many reasons..)

Exactly my point. It fits with the forum, will be way easier to organise, will involve less risks, will imply less budget, will solve any problem about free copies, will reach more people, etc.

There are way more reasons pro, imo.

elgato · Post by **elgato** » Sun May 07, 2006 9:38 pm

ramadanman wrote:sounds like a good idea pressing in the us and the uk - wanna keep costs down for you guys over there.

not sure we'd be able to shift quite as many as 2000 units though...

its true say...depends a lot on the angle taken on the music though i guess, if the label were looking to get tracks signed from top artists then it would make sense for the press to be larger...if from grass roots then smaller

This i think is going to be a big issue, as to where to draw the line between giving access to vinyl to new producers but making the release attractive to buyers. Also, the idea began regarding getting tracks out by artists we all love but which might not see the light of day. Perhaps a mixture would be a good compromise...a track by an established artist on one side and a new producer on the other. Tough though, again it depends on the vision people have for the ethos of the label

And this draws us back to the difficult question of decision making procedure, on which a few things have been said already

ramadanman · Post by **ramadanman** » Sun May 07, 2006 9:40 pm

i think that's a great idea - having a 'big producer' on the one side, and someone relatively new on the other.

regarding mp3 label - the majority of dubstep sales are vinyl, and i and im sure many others would prefer to have some sort of physical product to show for our labours

cede · Post by **cede** » Sun May 07, 2006 9:43 pm

Mastering will be a few hundred - between 300 and 700 potentially. Which would also have to include 2 masters.

Anyone know what Transition charges?

Getting each run pressed will be at least 1000.

Then shipping each order will also factor in at atleast 100 because vinyl is heavy after all.

You also have to buy mailers and all that stuff too

auralassassin · Post by **auralassassin** » Sun May 07, 2006 9:43 pm

I suggest a test run of 500 records for whatever 2 tracks we choose to start us off. That will give us a firm understanding of the work that goes into this as a whole, whether or not we can handle it as a co-op... and whether or not there is even enough interest...

500 white labels per side of the pond... My theory is that they will go very fast once people hear about them... ALSO, we already have big name DJ's around here that can give them a spin in the clubs and see how they go over.

I recommend: Forensix - CRUSH... it's already getting spins by the man like Joe Nice on his various radio shows.. not only getting spins, but being rewound and played again several times.

http://www.myspace.com/djforensix

also might wanna check out any of the various larger and already published producers on this website. I am definately lobbying for a fast release of Crush, though... hot ass track. Reminds me of Qawwali for some reason... so chill and mellow, but makes me wanna get absolutely crazy.

elgato · Post by **elgato** » Sun May 07, 2006 9:44 pm

i think digital distribution is a potential idea for later, but as CEDE said most sites want an established back-catalogue before they get anything going, and also ive heard that some sites are on a rinse out on royalties (i think i heard 40% for beatport?!), and it might well cut into potential vinyl sales. I personally prefer the idea of primarily dealing with vinyl, but with the potential to move forward later so as to increase accessibility

forensix (mcr) · Post by **forensix (mcr)** » Sun May 07, 2006 9:45 pm

auralassassin wrote:I suggest a test run of 500 records for whatever 2 tracks we choose to start us off. That will give us a firm understanding of the work that goes into this as a whole, whether or not we can handle it as a co-op... and whether or not there is even enough interest...

500 white labels per side of the pond... My theory is that they will go very fast once people hear about them... ALSO, we already have big name DJ's around here that can give them a spin in the clubs and see how they go over.

I recommend: Forensix - CRUSH... it's already getting spins by the man like Joe Nice on his various radio shows.. not only getting spins, but being rewound and played again several times.

http://www.myspace.com/djforensix

also might wanna check out any of the various larger and already published producers on this website. I am definately lobbying for a fast release of Crush, though... hot ass track. Reminds me of Qawwali for some reason... so chill and mellow, but makes me wanna get absolutely crazy.

you serious joe nice is playing it ????????????????

i aint heard that

ramadanman · Post by **ramadanman** » Sun May 07, 2006 9:45 pm

it's not like this is being done for profit, so let's go for the best in terms of quality

proper thick vinyl, and decent mastering.

paulie · Post by **paulie** » Sun May 07, 2006 9:45 pm

ramadanman wrote:so ok, say 1500 are pressed.

each record sells for £5.99

1500 x 5.99 = £8,985

ok, EXTREMELY hypothetical situation here, that means we technically have this amount of money to spend....

That's not how it works.

auralassassin · Post by **auralassassin** » Sun May 07, 2006 9:48 pm

CEDE wrote:Mastering will be a few hundred - between 300 and 700 potentially. Which would also have to include 2 masters.

Anyone know what Transition charges?

Getting each run pressed will be at least 1000.

Then shipping each order will also factor in at atleast 100 because vinyl is heavy after all.

You also have to buy mailers and all that stuff too

Yes, it will be pretty expensive... I think we should sort out what tracks we want to work on putting out... I think we have, potentially, people who could put a proper mastering job down cheap... if I remember correctly, we also have someone from Transitions on this website...

anything we can do IN HOUSE, so to speak, would be prefered... Transitions lays down stellar work, though.

ramadanman · Post by **ramadanman** » Sun May 07, 2006 9:48 pm

hmmm didn't think so

elgato · Post by **elgato** » Sun May 07, 2006 9:50 pm

It is maybe a bit cheeky to ask Paulie, but im sure any advice you might have to offer would be greatly appreciated...

Also, what are your feelings about the idea? Do you see it as potential competition or a welcome concept? Do you think that the discussion thus far has looked promising or naive? Sorry for the spanish inquisition

About the tunes to be released, i reckon that should come a long way down the line, once a decision making procedure is established and issues about subscriptions etc are decided

auralassassin · Post by **auralassassin** » Sun May 07, 2006 9:53 pm

haha, you better get something in writing with Forensix on that track soon, before someone else does

forensix (mcr) · Post by **forensix (mcr)** » Sun May 07, 2006 9:55 pm

that's it no more free 320's

cede · Post by **cede** » Sun May 07, 2006 9:57 pm

ramadanman wrote:so ok, say 1500 are pressed.

each record sells for £5.99

1500 x 5.99 = £8,985

ok, EXTREMELY hypothetical situation here, that means we technically have this amount of money to spend....

Yeah, well thats what makes starting a label seem easy at first. But it never works out that way.

So lets say you do have that number, right? You will only ever make that amount if you sell each and every copy direct at that price.

This is more of what happens:

realistically out of 1500 you will sell about 1400. because let's face it, you will end up having to give a good portion away for free or very little cost.

Also if you are going through a distributor, you will only be getting a fraction of the full retail selling price. maybe 1/3 or so.

If you are selling each record stabalized at 5.99 pounds you can expect to actually get about 1.80 for each record you sell.

Shops and online retailers will be getting 5.99 for the records, and they are paying 1/2 to 2/3rds to the distro for your record.

So in this case

1400 x 1.80 = 2,520.00

and then you recoup all your costs for mastering, production and artist payment. and you dont end up with a ton of profit for putting out 1,500 records

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