Dubstepforum.com

dr ddd wrote:Yeah, i think it's a sweeping generalisation to say that all people who "fit" into the world are compromising themselves or their personalities to do so. Even that what they are doing is fitting in. It's always going to be down to the individual and their outlook. I've never changed my attitude or behaviour to fit in with e.g. work etc, but some people do - and that's what's more important to them and is their choice.

You do work in an industry where that's not quite so important though. And you don't have to work round them all the time so you get some respite. I couldn't give a fuck about fitting in with people that are of little interest to me anyway, I'd rather be able so say my piece than just put up with it. Not that it's done me any favours in the long run, but hey, I can die on my bench knowing that I never bowed to the fuckers

Shonky wrote:

datura wrote:

Shonky wrote:

datura wrote:

Shonky wrote:In all honesty, I find the people that can fit into that world far stranger than those excluded from it.

Lol, seriously??!

Yeah. There's very little natural to todays work world, the people that can repress their personalities to do well within it are quite odd to my mind.

Then again my mind's quite odd to most everyone elses so it's entirely subjective.

I'm not sure that's entirely accurate, it may not strictly be the old 'hunter/gatherer' lifestyle of old, you can still apply a lot of those charachteristics to modern work environments where the strongest and fittest succeed.

Strongest and fittest are not the words I'd have used. Not even smarter most of the time.

But it depends how you define strongest and fittest..it may be manipulation, the ability to ingratiate oneself with the upper hierachy etc, but surely this is competition of a sort?

btw I have similar views to you, but it is quite an interesting debate

datura wrote: But it depends how you define strongest and fittest..it may be manipulation, the ability to ingratiate oneself with the upper hierachy etc, but surely this is competition of a sort?

You reckon this might have a lot to do with the death of the culture of deference in society? If your "leaders" are essentially self-interested, sycophantic fuckwits who will say anything to get ahead, then it's no wonder cynicism is so rife and the country is run as badly as it is. Seems that even in the corporate world that complete failure doesn't seem to be the end of a career.

I always think of competition as the last preserve of the chronically insecure anyway

Shonky wrote:

dr ddd wrote:Yeah, i think it's a sweeping generalisation to say that all people who "fit" into the world are compromising themselves or their personalities to do so. Even that what they are doing is fitting in. It's always going to be down to the individual and their outlook. I've never changed my attitude or behaviour to fit in with e.g. work etc, but some people do - and that's what's more important to them and is their choice.

You do work in an industry where that's not quite so important though. And you don't have to work round them all the time so you get some respite. I couldn't give a fuck about fitting in with people that are of little interest to me anyway, I'd rather be able so say my piece than just put up with it. Not that it's done me any favours in the long run, but hey, I can die on my bench knowing that I never bowed to the fuckers

yeah - but this is why I chose to work in the industry I work in. I know there are jobs out there that I would avoid like hell and I've had some that I've hated. I'm not saying I don't compromise at all - I think any significant relationship in one's life (and let's face it - a job is one after a fashion), one has to realise that there needs to be some form of "mutual" compromise, without compromising oneself, if that makes sense. I am careful with some of my opinions at work - mainly cos i'm often not interested in other's opinions so doubt they're going to be that interested in mine. But I will hold my ground if necessary.

It's a complex situation and I think everyone is going to come at it from different angles as they have different experiences.

dr ddd wrote:yeah - but this is why I chose to work in the industry I work in. I know there are jobs out there that I would avoid like hell and I've had some that I've hated. I'm not saying I don't compromise at all - I think any significant relationship in one's life (and let's face it - a job is one after a fashion), one has to realise that there needs to be some form of "mutual" compromise, without compromising oneself, if that makes sense. I am careful with some of my opinions at work - mainly cos i'm often not interested in other's opinions so doubt they're going to be that interested in mine. But I will hold my ground if necessary.

Unpopular opinions are a very good way of getting the more tedious members of staff to not speak to me though, which is a fucking blessing (boring chat about kids - have some Maddie gags). Have also just started ignoring people entirely if I can't be bothered with them, and purposefully pick verbal fights with the more flustered, useless, management if they're talking shit (which they inevitably will).

All about the small victories

fittest means most adapted to the ecosystem.

its got nothing to do with strength.

evolution is not about overcoming.

evolution is about adaptation.

we are experiencing adaptation pains because there has been a drastic shift away from our evolution in our environment.

I thought that fittest might have something to do with well trained tongue muscle.

Parson wrote:we are experiencing adaptation pains because there has been a drastic shift away from our evolution in our environment.

I've heard a similar argument to that before - can you expand or link to a source that argues this?

datura wrote:

Parson wrote:we are experiencing adaptation pains because there has been a drastic shift away from our evolution in our environment.

I've heard a similar argument to that before - can you expand or link to a source that argues this?

I think the thing that made man the most adaptable was our use of tools, so in those terms we're actually on course. Quite how being a CEO gets to be top of the food chain is another matter entirely.

So much of what is considered successful in this age does seem so abstract as to be almost irrelevant. Someone lending money that they don't own and doesn't technically exist and then daring to charge interest on it being one of them.

look at any animal other than man.

its genetically suited for its environment.

we're not genetically suited for anything around here. we get by because we can make stuff and pretend.

datura wrote: can you expand or link to a source that argues this?

good place to start:

Parson wrote:look at any animal other than man.

its genetically suited for its environment.

we're not genetically suited for anything around here. we get by because we can make stuff and pretend.

Don't you think that the reason humans have thrived so well is because of making stuff though? Shit we would have been wiped out by bigger, more voracious predators if we hadn't figured out how to make weapons. We couldn't have moved to cold climates without the ability to build shelters and figuring out how to make fire.

Parson wrote:look at any animal other than man.

its genetically suited for its environment.

we're not genetically suited for anything around here. we get by because we can make stuff and pretend.

We had adapted the environment to suit our needs surely?

i pretty much think everything about our presence is unnatural

datura wrote:

Parson wrote:look at any animal other than man.

its genetically suited for its environment.

we're not genetically suited for anything around here. we get by because we can make stuff and pretend.

We had adapted the environment to suit our needs surely?

yeah we're good at doing that for sure.

i love air conditioning

Parson wrote:i pretty much think everything about our presence is unnatural

Parson wrote:i pretty much think everything about our presence is unnatural

We have just evolved far quicker and to an extent that no other species is/was capable of.

datura wrote:

Parson wrote:i pretty much think everything about our presence is unnatural

We have just evolved far quicker and to an extent that no other species is/was capable of.

yup. i don't think that is a natural thing.

the way evolution works is in tiny steps. if something zigs, then something else zags, and everything remains harmonious.

there's been a huge leap though. like ginourmous. everything's outta wack right now.

its like if you think of a pool with little ripples in it, somebody's tilted the whole thing over to the side. its gonna be a big violent mess when the water starts settling back down.

Shonky wrote:

datura wrote: But it depends how you define strongest and fittest..it may be manipulation, the ability to ingratiate oneself with the upper hierachy etc, but surely this is competition of a sort?

You reckon this might have a lot to do with the death of the culture of deference in society? If your "leaders" are essentially self-interested, sycophantic fuckwits who will say anything to get ahead, then it's no wonder cynicism is so rife and the country is run as badly as it is. Seems that even in the corporate world that complete failure doesn't seem to be the end of a career.

I always think of competition as the last preserve of the chronically insecure anyway

erm - excuse me for digging this up - but surely this has been the part of human civilisation from the start... admittedly we dont have the church burning witches in the name of god or roman emporers slaughtering men, women and children for entertainment (Also i'm sure Brutus or Judas could be defined as self-interested, sycophantic fuckwits maybe? Except people actually died on account of them). For all I know there may have been such back stabbing in caveman politics. I don't think such behaviour is exclusive to the corporate world as we live in now - more a pattern of human behaviour being expressed in a different setting.

One could argue that the only reason cynicism is rife, is that modern technology in the west has given us the opportunity to act this way by relieving us of mundane tasks (such as working in fields for 15hours a day just for a bit of food) and freeing up all this thinking time to analyse how crap life is now we have modern convenience? Just a thought