commercialism

[surface_tension]

In a perfect world, good artists would just magically get money for their works. But we live in an imperfect world. Think about classical composers like Beethoven and Mozart had to work under a patronage system to survive. But would you accuse them of selling out?

I wouldn't accuse anyone of selling out, because selling out is something from within. If you go against your beliefs you may be selling out, yea? But if you are wrong, selling out would be a good thing right?

[reptilian]

I'm doing the score for a designer's runway show at the next New York Fashion Week (Ernte, if anyone's curious; more pictures from past collections here), who sought me out because he loved my work, and I suspect that's how the other artists named in this thread came to do their respective commissions.

i dont think nike and mtv approached skream and benga because they loved their work

in my opinion they are cynical corporations whos only interest is to sell their product. cool by association. the real face of the likes of nike, behind the uber cool images that it pumps out, is some fucked up indonesian sweatshop where there are no safety laws, where people are forced to work insane hours and where they drop the workers like a stone as soon as some even poorer and more desperate people pop up who can do it for cheaper

dubstep may not be around forever so i need to think about my future...
.

i know you said you were thinking of your future skream but in my view your future is bright as long as you keep your creative freedom. working to commission is all very well but as you said yourself Gallasia was hardly your best work.

your real fans who love your music will always follow you and support you as long as you continue pushing things forward with your music. myself included. for gods sake you are internationally known for what you do and you're still in your early 20s! and you have achieved this within a network of independent promoters, radio stations and labels

dubstep may not be around forever but i think you have got what it takes to keep evolving musically as tastes change and music evolves - you are probably the most versatile producer in the whole of dubstep and never fail to surprise people with your imagination and skills

[spaniard]

Fuck me why are people worried about commercialism, its like people are trying to keep dubstep to themselves,

End of the day its a way of life, its not like mtv and nike are out to ruin dubstep.

People telling me that they wouldnt take and offer from a multi national to do a piece of music for them. Course everyone would.

I bet the majority of people wont even know the nike tune is produced by skream if they see the advert.

Not like they are throwing dubstep in your face, its all subtle in my opinion. Not like Tiger Woods is skanking out to Night is it.

[struggle]

my shit is so underground that none of yall will ever hear it..that's how underground i am.

[overcast radio]

This topic is so great.

I know many professional composers/producers, DJ's, sound designers of varying degrees of vision, talent, and originality...working in all kinds of applications. ALL of them want to take their careers as far as they can and they are ALL interested in lots of music besides edm (niche genre anyway, dubstep being double niche)...this point/counterpoint goes beyond dubstep for sure...beyond any beat-related mx. Forget having your music in an ad...what about direct product endorsements? I was approached to endorse Manufacturer XYZ, and the artist agreement was too much for me. I know the product is "meh" but you are required to appear with it in photos, and talk it up. That is more of a problem for me because I look like a dummy saying Plug-in X is amazing when it's not. I just try to be honest and positive and leave out any criticism...or give it to r&d and let them quote whatever.

Your art is compromised as soon as it leaves your brain...and as soon as someone is paying you to do it even moreso. Know this, some magic fades when you go pro no matter what. But you evolve your music career and keep going forward. If you put your art out there, you cannot watch over it. You are in the public eye.

I'm displeased with rampant capitalism too, but I'm also a "change from within" kind of guy. Moreover, I don't have sensible dreams of music...international superstar producer/composer/sound designer DJ musicologist pundit writer taste-maker is my goal. I'm also prepared for a "now what?" moment when that happens. All good, you have one life, what else are you doing?

***YO CHECK THAT DJ SHIVA SURFACE TENSION PROMO MIX! SHIVA YOU ARE MY FAVORITE DJ IN THE UNIVERSE! YOU ARE SENSITIVE AND MUSICAL AND I LOVE YOU! THIS I ENDORSE FULLY! LET'S GET BACK TO DUB PLEASE ALBEIT A GREAT TOPIC TO DECONSTRUCT HERE! I'M SICK OF THE SOUND OF MY OWN VOICE!

[feral witchchild]

Man, if you ask me, it's mainly due to Pitchfork being all up on Burial's shit like sweat on a fat kid walking home after a long day of eatin' in the summer. A lot of Americans I know weren't even AWARE of dubstep before Burial blew the fuck up.

[thinking]

I shouldnt even get envolved in all this shit cause i will get mocked...
but fuck it...

i think it's wicked you still come & here to chat to peeps. There's not many music scenes or internet boards where your average punter/clubber/record buyer can chat with well-known artists. Bigup Skreamz.

[rogue star]

I shouldnt even get envolved in all this shit cause i will get mocked...
but fuck it...

i think it's wicked you still come & here to chat to peeps. There's not many music scenes or internet boards where your average punter/clubber/record buyer can chat with well-known artists. Bigup Skreamz.

so true

[overcast radio]

Man, if you ask me, it's mainly due to Pitchfork being all up on Burial's shit like sweat on a fat kid walking home after a long day of eatin' in the summer. A lot of Americans I know weren't even AWARE of dubstep before Burial blew the fuck up.

Choosing Burial as the breakout of dubstep, I don't totally agree with. His music is just so unique and evocative...nothing like a classic/empirical dubstep sound. MAH said it best for me...you almost fall in love with music again. Everyone needs to accept that if an art-form touches you, 1000's of other people are going to be, and are fully capable of being touched too. I cannot put dubstep on a pedestal. It stems from dub (and other things) and for me that is the essential form it sprang from...and I knew about dub before I knew about hip-hop or free-jazz let alone Burial or whatever!

All this complaining about the discovery or "outing" of dubstep makes me think some people are elitist; the feeling of being "in-the-know" or "ahead of the curve" read: a good feeling...is taken away. I'm not talking about anyone specific here...I'm talking about the way some people can put value or credibility on themselves for being aware of something cutting edge before the masses...and what that can do to your ego. Again, no one specific...I've seen it in all kinds of art-forms. There are similar themes to this in the coming of bebop. Some (not all) European critics feel that American's didn't know what they were doing was of any worth until the academic minds of European jazz critics alerted them to it!

Indirectly to haters in general...crying about how your exclusive, secret-circle of unknown music is getting noticed isn't really where it's at! If dubstep ever appears on GMA, The Hills, or The View, worry then.

[formzee]

I shouldnt even get envolved in all this shit cause i will get mocked...
but fuck it...

i think it's wicked you still come & here to chat to peeps. There's not many music scenes or internet boards where your average punter/clubber/record buyer can chat with well-known artists. Bigup Skreamz.

Innit, dubstep has a community feel unlike most genres and if people like skream want to go make their money then they've fucking earned it as far as im concerned, as long as we don't get MTV presents: FWD or DJs goin on like some celebrity house DJs then its all good.
In my opinion dubstep isn't vain enough to really become 'mainstream' like garage did 8 years ago or whenever it was ('kin 'ell) and will get it's run as one of the UKs legendary "underground" sounds.

[bright maroon]

Not to sound like a complete nerd...

..but maybe it is worth discussing companies before we lump them all as rippers...

..for example..I took my little cousins Dylan and Tony..to the car show one year..and Scion by far had the best set up...they had like 3 different cars that had been customized by graffiti artists..really cool digs..and they had one of their jeep things tricked out like a mobile disco..you'd open the back and it had full trippy lighting, over the top sound system, turntables..all out the back of the truck right...the artists were all on hand to talk..they were giving out free mixed cd's, nice key chains and little sweat bands with the logo..really nice the whole set up...beat everything else at the show by far..

I thought they were some lucky artists to get picked up to make that..I was glad that someone was scooping some cash back off the company...and to have a platform to make something interesting..most interesting out of the entire car show...was an accomplishment..

I think as long as you stay on top of your business..and don't let a company sort of harness you to their ends, then sponsorship can be your high mark on them...

..but the truth has yet to be seen with that..will they drop the entire urban culture thing if it ceases to be profitable..I don't really know...

Redbull on the other hand may just be in it to sell their foul tasting unhealthy speedy drinks..

[bright maroon]

..and here is a twist..


The Scion room was set up indentically across the hall from the DUB custom room..right...

DUB was fronting high end Hip-Hop...

Scion was beating them hard...with bubble machines...

[Pistonsbeneath]

everything is relative....by comparison to noize & musique concrete dubstep is commercial regardless of whether its used in adverts....

it doesn't matter.....you can buy it on the high street now from big stores...this is better for the producers..more exposure....

would you say no to whater skream & rusko have been offered for the ad/remixes.....and they may have said no to a lot more....

[kay]

My sister does marketing for Nike. Does this make her a nameless, soundless source of unmitigated evil?

Discuss.

[_boring]

capitalism is all about exploitation right? so.... we gotta exploit the fat cat's wallets to get ourselves up in the world, like the exposure (and loot) skream gets from doing the Nike thing.

if we want to burst the bubble of horrible media, its going to have to happen from the inside out. just like any revolution that could happen these days. totally set up shop within their own territory and next thing you know you have exploited the exploiters and BAM, they don't know what hit them. know what i mean? its a pretty basic concept imo. use their resources to ultimately secretly take over. lol. but this isnt war and ultimately its up to consumers, and i think a lot of us in the US know that its not that easy to push EDM on a lot of people, but it is definitly gaining steam amongst the youth, thanks largley to hip hop using synths hip hop is still the major player in the US. anyways enough tangent. (having the goal of hoping people start thinking for themselves and rejecting crap ass posed music is a lofty one)

some may say that its just feeding into Nike's wallets, and that we should totally boycott them and use complete DIY ethos, but not everyone wants to be so punk rock and poor sometimes. it just depends on how you grew up and what your standards are for getting money, and how much money you need. and kids like us who are into Audio gear would like to have billions of dollars obviously.


so, skream makes mad loot off of nike, and builds a new club with the best sound/set-up you can buy, and starts having rediculous nights where average mainstream clowns hear that skream opened up a nasty club, so they go to check it out and they get tracks like Coki - Goblin dropped in their FOICE, and are like, omg this isnt for me, and bounce out never to be heard from again.

my point is that as long as the artists keep it real with the music and progression, its all good, we all need mad money, and more expose = more money, so as long as you keep it real and dont "sell out" too much, its all good. as long as you dont become a tool for their system, and maintain your own ethics, you can use your own capital to make good things happen for your community.


signed,

Wake n' Bake'd

[misk]

all types of music end up getting some kind of exposure eventually. You can't keep it underground forever.

Think of all the different genres of music you hear on adverts, games etc.....

I write music for media/games as well as my dubstep/glitchy stuff. Trust me there are guys employed by most of the media companies whos job it is to find out what 'underground' music certain target audiences are listening to, so that when they try and sell their product the backing music will appeal to those people.

I recently got approached by one of the publishing companies that I make music for asking for a dubstep track for a game that's coming out. I couldn't do it due to the very tight deadline, but if I was able to, do you think I was going to turn around and say 'sorry I can't as it would be detrimental to keeping the dubstep scene underground....please take your cheque for five grand somewhere else'........Sorry but I've got bills to pay.......

I'm not meaning to offend anyone, but I think it's a good thing that dubstep is getting the attention that it in my opinion deserves, no?

Asking a scene to grow without exposure is a kinda contradiction in terms.....

Indeed. I think it's a travesty that so many artists out there voluntarily determine that they would be perceived as more "legitimate" if they starve, than if they were to actually be able to support themselves doing what they love.

[frodo]

Sigh.

[drew]

I don't see what everyone's so freaked out about. No one's selling out. The artist integrity is still intact - Nike isnt asking Skream to change his music. They've respected his creative vision and exposed it to people who otherwise wouldn't have known about it.

Our modern age is all about brands - every time you wear that shirt, or those shoes, or eat or drink that product, or even mention the name of a brand you are promoting it. Dubstep music or not, they are trying anything they can to get you to be a vehicle for their product.

You want to get into the ethics of it? What really finances our culture? I dont think anyones making that much money on their record sales, so lets just say this thing is being fueled by the events. Event's are ultimately paid for by alcohol sales. You wouldn't have a venue to hear this music if alcohol wasn't being sold. People wouldn't go to the event if they couldn't have a drink. Or a place to smoke. No one is talking about the ethics of alcohol companies. I think their products do more harm then a music video network channel.

If you have a problem with dubstep being used to push a brand or product, I think you just have an issue with brands or products.

In my opinion, I say lets milk them for what they got. Money in the dubstep artists pocket just fuels the scene, allows our culture to continue.

[overcast radio]

I don't see what everyone's so freaked out about. No one's selling out. The artist integrity is still intact - Nike isnt asking Skream to change his music. They've respected his creative vision and exposed it to people who otherwise wouldn't have known about it.

Our modern age is all about brands - every time you wear that shirt, or those shoes, or eat or drink that product, or even mention the name of a brand you are promoting it. Dubstep music or not, they are trying anything they can to get you to be a vehicle for their product.

You want to get into the ethics of it? What really finances our culture? I dont think anyones making that much money on their record sales, so lets just say this thing is being fueled by the events. Event's are ultimately paid for by alcohol sales. You wouldn't have a venue to hear this music if alcohol wasn't being sold. People wouldn't go to the event if they couldn't have a drink. Or a place to smoke. No one is talking about the ethics of alcohol companies. I think their products do more harm then a music video network channel.

If you have a problem with dubstep being used to push a brand or product, I think you just have an issue with brands or products.

In my opinion, I say lets milk them for what they got. Money in the dubstep artists pocket just fuels the scene, allows our culture to continue.

I like this...nice Drew.

[mechabot 01]

I don't see what everyone's so freaked out about. No one's selling out. The artist integrity is still intact - Nike isnt asking Skream to change his music. They've respected his creative vision and exposed it to people who otherwise wouldn't have known about it.

Our modern age is all about brands - every time you wear that shirt, or those shoes, or eat or drink that product, or even mention the name of a brand you are promoting it. Dubstep music or not, they are trying anything they can to get you to be a vehicle for their product.

You want to get into the ethics of it? What really finances our culture? I dont think anyones making that much money on their record sales, so lets just say this thing is being fueled by the events. Event's are ultimately paid for by alcohol sales. You wouldn't have a venue to hear this music if alcohol wasn't being sold. People wouldn't go to the event if they couldn't have a drink. Or a place to smoke. No one is talking about the ethics of alcohol companies. I think their products do more harm then a music video network channel.

If you have a problem with dubstep being used to push a brand or product, I think you just have an issue with brands or products.

In my opinion, I say lets milk them for what they got. Money in the dubstep artists pocket just fuels the scene, allows our culture to continue.

Absofuckinlutly spot on bruv!