Make your music sound good on systems.

[trike12]

Ive seen some people talking about tunes that sounds good, but bad on big sound systems.
Can someone explain what's "wrong" with those tunes, and what can be done to make your
tunes sound good on big systems?

saw the El-b masterclass, he talked about compressing the sub to more volume out of it
before the sub in the monitors started rattling, moving fast, whatever you would call it,
cant find a well descriping english word for it, sorry...

Was DJ'ing at a party a while and they had a turbosound
rig which sounded really good, but my own tunes sounded pretty bad on that system to, or
maybe not bad, just flat, but thats kinda bad anyway, but got me thinking about this.

[lowpass]

I've got a feelin that if the tunes don't have much space in them then it will sound really mushy on a proper system compared to some shitty computer speakers where they will sound "phat"

whereas a decently mixed track with the right use of dynamics and eq will cut through nicely

[jsilver]

mix on monitors at whatever volume is comfortable and get the levels how you want them

el-b is using a multi-band on his sub i think to flatten the high end and create more dB headroom for the low, im not really sure. if anyone knows anything more, do tell

[macc]

Practice, experience, monitoring.

[jsilver]

found this http://www.feelthebass.co.uk/vbulletin/ ... 13367.html

yeah i mean, i assume that the compression on the sub squashes it flatter so that you can turn the overall level of it up. Even tho it's a sine wave it still has slight peeks & troffs so the compression flattens it out followed by the output boost & hey presto.... I think....:rollingey
tell you what best way to check is export a sine wave to wavelab, run some compression on it and see how the waveform changes.... I might give it a go later... Safe

"rather than using a sine wave, use a lowpassed saw wave. i don't know what people are talking about when they mention a "warm sine" because a sine is just one frequency, no more. if it's got some harmonic distortion, it's no longer a pure sine, and that's probably what you're seeing on analog synths or processed waveforms.

the important thing to remember is that the first harmonic is absolutely essential if you want a "thick" and "present" sub. a sine wave a 30Hz will sound weak on anything other than the valve system, but a waveform with a fundamental of 30Hz and a prominent harmonic at 60Hz will sound pretty huge on any good system. saw waves have all integer harmonic partials, so that's why they make such good starting points for sub tones. square waves sound "hollow" because they have every *other* harmonic partial... so your square wave at 30Hz also has components at 90Hz, but not at the all-important 60Hz.

if in doubt, use a spectral analyzer, and look for that peak in the 60-80Hz range. if there's a big gap there, your bass won't hit."

[wormcode]

Practice, experience, monitoring.

this, + A/Bing with tunes you are familiar with.

[decklyn]

You've got a box that is capable of holding only so much.
Yours are filled less than capacity at the moment.

For sub bass you shouldn't need to do much more than ensure that the dynamics are stable, but I"m not too sure what el-b etc are doing.
Just use sines. Some one posted a good free synth that generates sines in another thread can't remember what it's called.
Use the VU to check that it's 0 db.

Now apply a HP filter to all other tracks to get rid of any sub bass in them, giving you some headroom. Obviously this is not a hard rule so where you want rumble, keep it.

Saturate your kick a bit.

Apply tight reverb or delay to your drums - For this application, if you're creating space with delays then use reverb or if you're creating space with reverb then use delays.
Again, not a hard rule, but a smart guideline.

Low pass filter most elements to clear the high end for those elements that you do want to sparkle.

Really recommend highpass and lowpass filter on most channels.
Roll them up to where you can start to hear the sound change and then roll them down a bit.

LAYERING is a huge one. Each element can consist of multiple layers to make it take up more space. Put a clap and some noise underneath your snare. Put another kick over your kick. Eq them so that you boost the nice sounding frequencies and cut everything else. You want to EQ layered elements in a complementary way so that one clears room for the other.

Then watch the VUs and in conjunction with your ears and judgement start to get things closer to 0 db peak and if dynamics are an issue apply some light compression or limiting to press the peaks down a bit. I'd recommend you don't do this too much but this is just personal preference and mixing style. Depends on what you want your product to sound like.

Good luck! Just keep at it. In 6 months or a year you'll be amazed at how you're doing it better. You just make stuff that sounds fat and you don't even know how or why or think about it.

In terms of the above post - using a filtered saw wave for sub bass. Just my opinion, but keep the sine for the sub bass and use saturation in another layer above it if you want it to have presence on shitty systems.

[macc]

found this http://www.feelthebass.co.uk/vbulletin/ ... 13367.html

yeah i mean, i assume that the compression on the sub squashes it flatter so that you can turn the overall level of it up. Even tho it's a sine wave it still has slight peeks & troffs so the compression flattens it out followed by the output boost & hey presto.... I think....:rollingey
tell you what best way to check is export a sine wave to wavelab, run some compression on it and see how the waveform changes.... I might give it a go later... Safe

Generally this shows a very poor understanding of the basics and is best ignored.

"rather than using a sine wave, use a lowpassed saw wave. i don't know what people are talking about when they mention a "warm sine" because a sine is just one frequency, no more. if it's got some harmonic distortion, it's no longer a pure sine, and that's probably what you're seeing on analog synths or processed waveforms.

the important thing to remember is that the first harmonic is absolutely essential if you want a "thick" and "present" sub. a sine wave a 30Hz will sound weak on anything other than the valve system, but a waveform with a fundamental of 30Hz and a prominent harmonic at 60Hz will sound pretty huge on any good system. saw waves have all integer harmonic partials, so that's why they make such good starting points for sub tones. square waves sound "hollow" because they have every *other* harmonic partial... so your square wave at 30Hz also has components at 90Hz, but not at the all-important 60Hz.

if in doubt, use a spectral analyzer, and look for that peak in the 60-80Hz range. if there's a big gap there, your bass won't hit."

Then this, well, to a certain extent I agree, but I don't agree that if there's no 60Hz your bass won't hit. Most often that first harmonic he refers to is the source of muddy, ill-defined low end. There's a few issues here.... It's all very well if your bass sits only at 30Hz, but if it goes up to 40,45,50 then you have a problem with your kick, in a great many cases. Secondly, why generate a harmonic at 60 and not simply use 60 Hz? Sharing out the available low end energy between 30 and 60 - in combination with the kick issue, means you have less of the total available energy shared out between two areas, to the weakening of both, AND you're running the risk of interference with the kick. This gives you a 'fuller' 'warmer' bass but withless clarity and poorer low end definition in (IME) the overwhelming majorty of cases. Sometimes that's what you want, a thick carpet of bass. But if you want crystal clear fatness with good note definition then, IMO and IME, it is best avoided. Sticking to a pure sine of the appropriate frequency will garner more clarity. So, in this example, it would be well worth trying the note at 60Hz rather than diminishing 30 and squeezing some 60 out of it.

There's a lot more ways to handle this, and in some cases the dude has a point, but IME that first harmonic is very often a cause of mud/woolliness and best watched - not removed! - very carefully indeed.

[breaksbaron]

A while back someone else posted about their tunes sounding strange on a big rig, and the answer they got was, some club systems run on 'mono'

[jsilver]

thanks for the reply macc

[Sharmaji]

spend more time on your drums! seriously. beats are what get people moving. a nicely-controlled sub will fill a room, sure, and a well-written song is what people will remember, but if you're concerned about shit sounding good and getting a good reaction, get your drums banging. they can be huge or tiny, but drums are THE important thing in dance music.

[future one]

spend more time on your drums! seriously. beats are what get people moving. a nicely-controlled sub will fill a room, sure, and a well-written song is what people will remember, but if you're concerned about shit sounding good and getting a good reaction, get your drums banging. they can be huge or tiny, but drums are THE important thing in dance music.

I agree 100%

[grooki]

interesting thread

[trike12]

spend more time on your drums! seriously. beats are what get people moving, if you're concerned about shit sounding good and getting a good reaction, get your drums banging. they can be huge or tiny, but drums are THE important thing in dance music

THIS is one of those things that is SO obvious that it passes your head sometimes, good reminder.
agree on the rest to..

[macc]

thanks for the reply macc

Wrote it in a bit of a hurry, so reading it back it seems a bit brusque

Agree about the drums thing as well - though of course one should always try to make everything sound good!

[safeandsound]

Difficult to generalize as there are a lot of club systems and they are
tuned with a wide variety of responses, some just sound bad !

However this is where it is important more than anywhere to have the bottom end monitored
in a treated and accurate room.

Sounding flat could simply just mean a little lacking in smooth top end or mid range "crack".

Just a few educated generalizations, as every club system is very different as is the acoustic of the room itself.

I sometimes get tracks in where there is 6-8dB too much bottom end so stranger things have
happened at sea.

cheers