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Can dubstep learn from the mistakes of DnB?
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 4:21 pm
by citizen
It's clear that a fair proportion of members on this forum are former junglists - quite a few of you seem to have been dissatified with the overall sound of DnB for some time now.
Like myself, I'm guessing that a lot of you guys are now also feeling the same uncontrollable buzz that you felt when you first heard the mad, mad beats of Jungle and DnB. Electric!
But then (most) DnB got stale. Formulaic. Conservative. Predictable. Experimentation became scorned...and quite a few of us lost interest.
Can dubstep learn from the evolution (decline?) of DnB?
Is dubstep destined to mimic the progression of Jungle/DnB? Will it experience a short period of intense progression and experimentation, only to settle into an eventual cycle of trends and dominant styles?
Will money be the catalyst for conservatism?
To what extent can a scene consciously retain an experimental ethos?
Finally, is it fair to use the evolution of DnB as a guide to predict what the future holds for dubstep? I think there is some worth in this idea. I may be wrong. (I sincerely hope I am)
I would be very interested to hear everyones thoughts on these concepts.
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 4:28 pm
by viceroy
Well as long as we all stay off E and keep the music from going up to 174 bpm we should be just fine.
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 4:33 pm
by joseph-j
No I don't think so - I think dnb was ruined when it was pushed to its extremes - it was all about who was harder and faster, and suprisingly all the energy was lost.
Also, dnb was so elitest - most of the time you had to have a certain sound if your dubs were going to get played (one of the reasons the scene became so dull) - dubstep's so much more democratic in that - homemade DIY tunes by all sorts of people played by all sorts of people.
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 4:37 pm
by citizen
LOL @ Viceroy!
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 4:55 pm
by viceroy
Joseph-J wrote:Also, dnb was so elitest - most of the time you had to have a certain sound if your dubs were going to get played (one of the reasons the scene became so dull) - dubstep's so much more democratic in that - homemade DIY tunes by all sorts of people played by all sorts of people.
So true my friend.
Example, "clownstep" (for lack of a better term) was the rage one second, then demonized the next, just from a few people saying it sucks.
The dnb scene is to scene! Its not about fashion, no one dances, its lost for me, the freshness and excitement when I listen to it.
I like it that there isn't a dj mafia controling what songs are hot and which one's arn't
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:03 pm
by joseph-j
There was just no room for change in the scene - I remember reading a review of Dead Man Walking by Fresh, and they were chatting about how he was being so inventive with his drum programming. Inventive?!! Don't these people remember the old Omni Trio/Moving Shadow shit with their razor sharp snares??
Dead man Walking was the last dnb 12 I bought by the way. What a barrel of cack.
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:09 pm
by viceroy
[quote="Joseph-J"]Don't these people remember the old Omni Trio/Moving Shadow shit with their razor sharp snares??quote]
Yes. Renegade Snare's anyone?
Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:58 am
by pez
Joseph-J wrote:
Dead man Walking was the last dnb 12 I bought by the way. What a barrel of cack.
Uh huh! I wouldn't touch any of the shit Fresh comes out with a ten foot barge pole, as far as I'm concerned it's not even drum and bass. Paradox, Seba, Breakage et al are where it's at at the mo. Quite a bit of 'liquid' stuff I like too, but there's a lot of flouncy limp wristed Nu NRG jump up disguising itself as liquid too
There's a lot of good jungle out there, you've just got to look beyond what the a-listers are playing.....
Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 11:19 am
by r33lc4sh
Viceroy wrote:
Example, "clownstep" (for lack of a better term) was the rage one second, then demonized the next, just from a few people saying it sucks.
becouse it sucks like hell
actually that's the worst thing i've ever heard
Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 11:43 am
by rjv
if you dig deeper you'll find dnb is doing pretty well.
there's more to it than just the clownstep idiocy.
Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 11:56 am
by r33lc4sh
rjv wrote:if you dig deeper you'll find dnb is doing pretty well.
there's more to it than just the clownstep idiocy.
man i run breakcore/dnb nights for 6 years, i know sth about dnb scene
Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 12:01 pm
by dj krave
Viceroy wrote:Well as long as we all stay off E and keep the music from going up to 174 bpm we should be just fine.
Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 12:28 pm
by blackdown
it is absolutely 100% fucking essential dubstep learns from d&b's mistakes.
and lesson number 1 is that if the sound becomes a caustic noize contest or decends into tepid 'liquid' territories - ie becomes souless - then all is lost.
Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 1:27 pm
by baz
might not the different tempo and feel allow for something quite different to come out of using caustic noise in dubstep though? vex'd are the obvious example. there's an angular, industrial quality to a lot of the rythmns that is complimented well by harsh sounds in my opinion. i dislike a lot of the dnb you're referring to that uses those sounds but not because the sounds themselves are bad but just because the tracks themselves are bland, loopy, formulaic...
Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 2:40 pm
by [b]racket
Not when dnb is still making the same mistakes...
Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 2:42 pm
by [b]racket
baz wrote:might not the different tempo and feel allow for something quite different to come out of using caustic noise in dubstep though? vex'd are the obvious example. there's an angular, industrial quality to a lot of the rythmns that is complimented well by harsh sounds in my opinion. i dislike a lot of the dnb you're referring to that uses those sounds but not because the sounds themselves are bad but just because the tracks themselves are bland, loopy, formulaic...
have you heard the dnb brood bootleg that i keep hearing....?
Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 2:44 pm
by nirz
for me the problems began with drum and bass once it crept over the 168bpm mark... the increase in tempo had a huge effect on the music in upping the tempo and trying to give it more energy had the adverse effect, The power of nonproducing DJs also has an impact as they had the power to make or break a tune, they always favoured the tunes with simpler structures making them easier to mix meaning d+b which experimented with structure was not given any exposure... writing drum and bass is a musicall staitjacket... soooo rigid are the rules for strucure its no wonder everything sounds similar....
However I still love drum and bass it just means you have to look harder to find interesting music
We should all look at what has happened to drum and bass as a cautionary tale and look to not repeat the same mistakes!
Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 4:28 pm
by baz
[/quote] have you heard the dnb brood bootleg that i keep hearing....?[/quote]
no, is it any good? does it use more than just the breakbeat cos that's a fairly common one in dnb (as you're probably well aware, just checking).
Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 4:35 pm
by blackdown
baz wrote:might not the different tempo and feel allow for something quite different to come out of using caustic noise in dubstep though?
there's nothing stopping d&b producers if they want to be more experimental at their tempo though. there's nothing that intrinsically liberates a producer by slowing from 175 to 138bpm. (Amit uses halftime drums for example).
Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 4:46 pm
by Rob H
well im still kinda young so i missed the real explosion of dnb, although i still appreciate some of it, so i dont really have much authority to talk on it but one of the major differences between the two genres in my humble oppinion is that there is a lot more varied approach to dubstep > for example all dnb tunes have an underlying drum break rolling through it where as dubstep seems to be a lot less formulaic, hopefully therefor we will always be in for positive inovations