sub-bass help

[mistayif]

i'm making a sub bass using massive and its pretty much just 2 sine waves doubled on top of each other with some harmonics.

basically when playing the sub bass, the volume is uneven ie. the lower you go, the quieter the note becomes. is this because the notes are on the low end limits of the frequency range of my monitors or is there something that can be done to combat this problem.

i've had a listen to skream's in for the kill and the lowest sub-bass note in that tune is the same as the lowest sub-bass note for my tune. however in skream's tune, the volume of the bass is consistant while in my tune, the same low sub bass note is almost unaudible.

can someone shed some light as to how skream achieves this? or its just the fact that the frequency range of my monitors don't stretch down far enough.

thanks in advance

[growlater]

If you haven't experimented with this already, You can try using a limiter on the sub/sin channel (lots of gain and set the maximum output at the negative value which you want the sin to remain at). You may want to use a free oscilliscope to give you a visual representation of the wave to make sure you aren't squaring your sin wave, but this can work pretty well if you do it with care. For a free oscilliscope try this http://bram.smartelectronix.com/scope_docs/. Make sure you use the controls on the plugin to adjust timing / x/y axis zoom to get a better view of the wave. If consistent apparent volume of different sin notes is what you are after, this may be a way to do it.

[Sharmaji]

you're probably also having some phasing w/ the stacked sine's. try simplifying your waveforms.

[jsills]

i agree with sharmaji, no need to stack the sines, def will cause phasing and cause the volume to pulse. for my subs use 1 osc detuned to taste, maybe some saturation if you want to sound a little warmer.


alsowhat size monitors are you working on??

we have 2 studios in my house, 1 with 8" and 1 with 6" monitors.
on the 6" you will notice that the sub will be loud at certain frequencies and when you go below they will almost be inaudible. i just keep an eye on the output and make sure its peaking in the same place. also try listening with a good set of headphones.

[mistayif]

i have a pair of alesis m1 active mk2's. i think the woofer size is 6.25".
i don't think its a phasing problem because its only on the low notes where the volume fades and i've tried it only with 1 sine wave and the same thing still occurs.

i've tried playing the bassline through my headphones (hd-25) and it seems that the variations in volume in the bassline is much less apparent so could i assume then that its my monitors reaching their minimum frequency limit?

if this is the case, what processing techniques do you think skream could have used to produce the constant volume?

cheers

[lynn mc]

well for sub you need a basic sinewave. if you can't hear the same note as the one in that track clearly, he probably had it in a seperate channel with compression? compress the sinewaves

[jsills]

sounds like a monitor issue.
6" monitors dont go very low, try listening to the mix in diff speakers, i find listening to my tracks in the car gives me a good idea of what needs to be fixed in a mix. 6x9's put outs some decent bass.


have you soloed the sub track and looked at the peaks on the master output display? this should show you if there is an actual change in volume.


as far a skream is concerned, the subs on in for the kill arent particularly low frequency and theres barely anything else in the mix so its very audible. dudes mixes are always super clean. it takes practice to get to that level. hes an OG at this dubstep ting.

[martello]

Yeah, I think too, if a pure sine then - probably a monitor or room issue. Veeery common.

[lowpass]

The lower the frequency, the more phasing becomes an issue, so thats something to consider but that's not really the issue here.

As said try just one waveform and limit it, I think I remember it was Rob Sparx who said he liked to add a boost around 60 hz too, I prefer to have my boost a little lower around 45-50 but try and see what works for you.

The sub on in for the kill doesn't sound the purest so I'd say it might have some saturation/distortion on it which would be bringing out the 2nd/3rd harmonics which would explain why you can hear it better than you're own. Either that or he's taken maybe a square or saw wave and lowpassed it to get the sound.

[Rickmansworth]

if you're using sins, then drop the 2nd osc and compress that shyt, dawg.

[Depone]

The in for the kill bass is a filtered reece with a sub layered below it. Having two sine waves layered, as said above in the thread WILL give you phasing issues and the volume will drop at lower octaves as the two waves will go in and out of phase much slower. I think thats right anyway!
Be careful of limiting a sine wave, it doesnt need to be a square wave

[86.]

I was thinking this same thing today while working on this tune. I'm using ableton operator.

I ended up listening to a lot of other tunes to reference. but I still don't know...

I noticed that coki's mood dub has this near inaudible sub note. I suppose it's known that certain notes bang out harder than others....but in mood dub the lower notes nearly drown out.

I also notice that a lot of Silkie tunes have this same steelo going on.

then I figured....I'm not using monitors so obviously on better monitors/an actual system it would translate better.

[decklyn]

Just use a pure sine. Don't process it.
If you're mixing in an untreated room some of the perceived difference in volume may be caused by your room.
Watch the meters if you don't trust what you're writing on.

[lojik]

As Depone said the bass for In For The Kill isn't a pure sub it's a reece (most likely a square-wave reece) which has been low passed. Even a filtered reece has tons more harmonics and low-mid frequencies in it making it audiable even on the lower end of the scale whilst still retaining the sub bass punch.

[lowpass]

The in for the kill bass is a filtered reece with a sub layered below it. Having two sine waves layered, as said above in the thread WILL give you phasing issues and the volume will drop at lower octaves as the two waves will go in and out of phase much slower. I think thats right anyway!
Be careful of limiting a sine wave, it doesnt need to be a square wave

hmmm I guess that would explain why lower frequencies are more noticeable when they go out of phase

[nowaysj]

def will cause phasing and cause the volume to pulse.

Don't forget this can give you awesome tremolos wobble. Especially pitching one of those sines, put a really fast lfo to pitch on one of the sines and completely destroy a woofer, yeah!

Don't forget to play and have some fun.

[jsills]

cool tip nowaysj, i never tried that. ill give it a shot tonight when i get out the hellhole i call work. hah

[Depone]

have you ever tried playing a note (sine sub) and also holding the note next to it? will give you some natural sub wobble

[decklyn]

have you ever tried playing a note (sine sub) and also holding the note next to it? will give you some natural sub wobble

I wrote a tune doing that.
I modulated the pitch on one of the tones.
FUN PLAY!!!

[major zero]

you're probably also having some phasing w/ the stacked sine's. try simplifying your waveforms.

Been having the same problem in one of my tunes and this was the problem, funny how 1 sine is actually a fair bit louder than 2!

Cheers mate.