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No chance of my mid term paper being done for me then

the acid never lies wrote:No chance of my mid term paper being done for me then

Nice try

language or accent? i've never been to London, only Hackney.

I'm not quite sure I understand the quote well enough... isn't it normally applied to the UK and the US?

I've always considered London a city divided by its cultures... the language actually provides a useful bridge for millions of people who would otherwise have no idea how to relate to each other.

magma wrote:I'm not quite sure I understand the quote well enough... isn't it normally applied to the UK and the US?

I've always considered London a city divided by its cultures... the language actually provides a useful bridge for millions of people who would otherwise have no idea how to relate to each other.

get me fam, mandem speak troof... an ting

not that i actually sound at all like that what so ever, i'm rather middle class

particle-jim wrote: i'm rather middle class

What? But you're from....Bromley....middle class? Really? I cant.....I can't even..


seriously??

.onelove. wrote:

particle-jim wrote: i'm rather middle class

What? But you're from....Bromley....middle class? Really? I cant.....I can't even..


seriously??

i dont live in the shit parts of bromley, some areas round here are shit holes and full of chav scum but bromley is big enough to have very nice areas 2, its mostly suburban and full of middle class ppl... orpington however is massivley shite

magma wrote:I'm not quite sure I understand the quote well enough... isn't it normally applied to the UK and the US?

I've always considered London a city divided by its cultures... the language actually provides a useful bridge for millions of people who would otherwise have no idea how to relate to each other.

yeah it's a bit of a headfuck - I think I'm going to have to take 'language' in some ultra figurative sense and try to steer the question towards class / culture. Or perhaps it's the superficial, the assumed common ground between us that mask the deeper tensions in our society... dun dun dunnnnnnnnn!

the acid never lies wrote:

magma wrote:I'm not quite sure I understand the quote well enough... isn't it normally applied to the UK and the US?

I've always considered London a city divided by its cultures... the language actually provides a useful bridge for millions of people who would otherwise have no idea how to relate to each other.

yeah it's a bit of a headfuck - I think I'm going to have to take 'language' in some ultra figurative sense and try to steer the question towards class / culture. Or perhaps it's the superficial, the assumed common ground between us that mask the deeper tensions in our society... dun dun dunnnnnnnnn!

What is it you study again, dude? It sounds like it might turn out interesting... wouldn't mind a read if/when you're happy with the final essay!

I like the last idea... maybe because people look and sound relatively similar, we assume that they must be similar in other ways so we're more shocked with differences than we would be from people speaking a different language.

Language is a right funny one... this is a very silly sketch, but I think it was an interesting idea that the British/English tongue is simply too sarcastic and ironic for a blood and thunder dictator to use it effectively. Could people have simply laughed at Hitler if he'd had a posh British voice?

that's not too far removed from what my seminars are like!

I study english lit but a chunk of my course is critical theory and linguistics. Unfortunately this is part of my 'writing london' module which is pretty much all text based so whatever arguements I come up with I have to relate them to two of the module's core texts (Great Expectations, The Buddha Of Suburbia, The Shoemaker's Holiday, Journal Of The Plague Year)

[quote="magma"]
I like the last idea... maybe because people look and sound relatively similar, we assume that they must be similar in other ways so we're more shocked with differences than we would be from people speaking a different language.[quote]

yeah I reckon this is a good starting point because then I can go on to talk about what those differences actually are which all the texts explore in some form or another (culture, sexuality, identity, class etc.) Could go well or it might be a load of fluff - I'll pass it on if I feel it's good enough!

I have another paper to write for another module 'language in time' but this one gets even more conceptual: "how does language hook onto the world"

I really have left these for much too long

the acid never lies wrote: that's not too far removed from what my seminars are like!

I study english lit but a chunk of my course is critical theory and linguistics. Unfortunately this is part of my 'writing london' module which is pretty much all text based so whatever arguements I come up with I have to relate them to two of the module's core texts (Great Expectations, The Buddha Of Suburbia, The Shoemaker's Holiday, Journal Of The Plague Year)

Ahh, gotcha. Sounds good. Though out of those I've only read Great Expectations. Is Journal Of The Plague Year any good? I've always meant to read some Defoe..

the acid never lies wrote: yeah I reckon this is a good starting point because then I can go on to talk about what those differences actually are which all the texts explore in some form or another (culture, sexuality, identity, class etc.) Could go well or it might be a load of fluff - I'll pass it on if I feel it's good enough!

I reckon you can probably find quite a bit in all that lot.... good luck... yeah, only pass it on if you're comfortable - I doubt I know anywhere near enough about linguistics to get it all, but I'm very interested!

I have another paper to write for another module 'language in time' but this one gets even more conceptual: "how does language hook onto the world"

Crikey. I definitely don't understand that one.

new york is going through the exact same thing. the only difference is england's class system, which will always be a huge problem, because there's a massive segment of your population thats still obsessed with the monarchy. americans don't care about royalty. that whole notion is fading fast.

samuel pepys is a badman.

seckle wrote:new york is going through the exact same thing. the only difference is england's class system, which will always be a huge problem, because there's a massive segment of your population thats still obsessed with the monarchy. americans don't care about royalty. that whole notion is fading fast.

Actually, I don't think there are that many people in england who are particularly obsessessed with the monarchy. At least not to the point where it causes a whole class system problem.

I think the greater class divide obsession lies in the very artificial divide between the so-called working class and middle class.

With regards language and London, language patterns and usage can be distinctly different between different boroughs, I'd say. This is all fed into by all the various cultural backgrounds that tend to be more prevalent in some boroughs than others. So each borough does have its own perceived identity which serves to reinforce and self-perpetuate its identity, regardless of whether it's true or false when you actually live in it.

According to the handy Life in the UK Handbook, the 2001 census reported that 45% of all ethnic minority people in the UK lived in London, where they make up 29% of the population. That's quite a hefty chunk. And they all (generally) speak English, although modified by usage in their countries of origin. So you end up with words used differently or new words being introduced to the language.

I think in some ways I'd argue more that London is a city brought together by a common language.

Lots of people in London don't speak english...


(BTW I am NOT one of those "at least learn the language" people)

what i meant by royalty obsession is really in the fabric of what it means to be british. if you're a 2nd generation immigrant to britain from one of the colonies like jamaica or india, you're still influenced by empire,.... ie you know your class, its boundaries, and where you stand amongst the rest of the classes. london, like new york, paris, tokyo , berlin and many other cities is a global city, so its got the same trappings of classes/religions/cultures having to co-exist together in one dense area. its also closer to the boiling point for england because your Island is running out of room.

seckle wrote:what i meant by royalty obsession is really in the fabric of what it means to be british. if you're a 2nd generation immigrant to britain from one of the colonies like jamaica or india, you're still influenced by empire,.... ie you know your class, its boundaries, and where you stand amongst the rest of the classes. london, like new york, paris, tokyo , berlin and many other cities is a global city, so its got the same trappings of classes/religions/cultures having to co-exist together in one dense area. its also closer to the boiling point for Britain because your Island is running out of room.

Fixed, sorry i had to do that the whole island is not England,

You have valad points though if i have read it right, there are loads of boundaries for almost everyone in the UK, but times are changing it is not as bad as it was in let's say the 80's, but it still needs improving but that goes for every country. No matter what colour you are, country your from, in a foregin land you will alway's find boundaries.

magma wrote:Is Journal Of The Plague Year any good? I've always meant to read some Defoe.

A bit of a pain to read in parts but as a snapshot of the times it's very thorough - from the emergency powers that were being imposed to the rumours and theories that were being circulated at the time, the conmen that duped people into buying miracle cures and the fears and concerns of masters and servants... there's a lot there so if you're interested in the period or even seeing how people act in times of crisis (aaaah! swine flu!) then give it a shot.

As a piece of journalism - fantastic
As a novel... could be better

kay wrote: I think the greater class divide obsession lies in the very artificial divide between the so-called working class and middle class.

agreed. that is the same in america too.