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so far I haven't needed one for either Producing or djing and so im wondering how or if it will help to get one? I use ableton and don't do any live recording yet. I use a cheap usb sound card for queing.

You can't really do production without an audio interface unless you don't mind a massive delay between pressing your keyboard and a sound coming out.

not very tbh

mouse and kbd are all u need

It's not absolutely necessary, but it makes your production life easier. Hardware wise, I've only got a 2-octave midi keyboard, but having it has made writing melodies/chords and placing samples in so much easier and quicker. Start off with a midi-keyboard and see if it helps.

tripaddict wrote:not very tbh

mouse and kbd are all u need

I think some of you are confusing audio interface with midi controller. I'm asking about an external sound card with varying inputs and outputs including headphone out so you can que songs for dj'ing or record audio in. As far as latency, asio 4 all sound card drivers bring latency down enough for production or dj'ing without the need for this extra hardware. With these drivers I get 25ms for both in and out comibed. With the hardware I think it brings it down to 10ms? Negligible, and certainly not worth the $100-200 for one...

If you are djing with the computer as the sound source you HAVE to have a soundcard. That is just not exceptable to run traktor or whatever out of a built in sound card. No, no, no, no.

I got away with using a cheapo sound blaster for yonks. I used Reason tho and the latency wasn't bad at all. You try to use a real sequencer forget about it. You can get used to the latency I suppose. If you are doing everything in compter then the bad card isn't going to affect the sound quality or your production you will just be hindered by inaccurate referencing. It can add up too. If you have a shitty card and decent monitors like I did you can make it work. But cheap hifi speakers + shitty sound card, it adds up, you may not even know what the tune really sounds like. A basic USB interface isn't expensive tho, do yourself a favor.

yamaz wrote:I think some of you are confusing audio interface with midi controller. I'm asking about an external sound card with varying inputs and outputs including headphone out so you can que songs for dj'ing or record audio in. As far as latency, asio 4 all sound card drivers bring latency down enough for production or dj'ing without the need for this extra hardware. With these drivers I get 25ms for both in and out comibed. With the hardware I think it brings it down to 10ms? Negligible, and certainly not worth the $100-200 for one...

Looks like you have your mind made up. Why bother asking about it then? I spent a bit more than 200 for my device and I think it was worth every penny even the tax. I even have two, one for djing and one for production.

Well that's why I'm asking, because if there is a good reason, like better sound out than what my built in realtek card does, then I would gladly purchase one...but your the first person to actually suggest that to me, and I never noticed before...

yamaz wrote:Well that's why I'm asking, because if there is a good reason, like better sound out than what my built in realtek card does, then I would gladly purchase one...but your the first person to actually suggest that to me, and I never noticed before...

There can be an audible difference between a cheapo converter and a nice one. There was a noticeable difference from the sound blaster I was using to my Torq Connectiv and also from the Torq Connective to my Audio Kontrol 1. That with the lower latency, it is well worth it imo. Plus you might not do a lot of recording but it is a great option to have. Even just recording dj sets but good a to d and preamps with a lot of model is a major improvement over a stock card.

if you are already doing everything "inside the box" it's not going to matter. unless you are recording, using analog gear, have a need to hook up numerous inputs/outputs that a standard soundcard won't support, or want to use something with built-in DSP effects and processing, it's not necessary. if you are already doing everything digital, you aren't going to notice a difference in sound quality by using a different soundcard or interface. a better interface isn't going to give you a better mix for producing. you'd only notice a difference in recording live tracks, vocals, etc. i wouldn't waste money on a cheap one either. if you do want to get one...go rme, apogee, etc. as they are known for their good pres and a/d converters....which again, won't do anything or be of any use unless you are recording.

Wait, really? Because I notice a pretty big difference when producing with an external sound card v. using the stock. I have two as well.. one foe recording DJ sets and sampling vinyl and vocals and then just a small one for making beats. It just seems to be less background noise cleaner over all + obviously convenient a la access to all the in/outs.

I didn't bother mentioning vastly improved sound quality becuase I assumed that was standard knowledge.......

If you got noise with an onboard soundcard or just a PCI card, it's probably cause your motherboard is not grounded correctly or your sound settings are wrong and/or you got the internal mic on picking up noise. The difference you hear is most likely just the difference in level settings between the devices/software settings or just cleaner/isolated connections. General playback should have minimal quality difference unless you got other issues going on that would be causing interference or electrical noise with an onboard or expansion style soundcard. Unless you're using DSP or something else that's coloring the sound, there's no additional processing or magical better quality conversion going on with playback on an expensive audio interface and a soundcard. Pretty much all soundcards today do 96kHz/24-bit. Higher end ones still cheaper than an interface do 192KHz/24-bit and even have better A/D converters. Main reason to get an interface is for ease in connecting things or specifically for recording, where the AD converters really matter.

If it's playback quality you're after, you'd be better off getting good monitors, acoustically treating your room, and maybe an outboard DAC connected to your digital in/out on your soundcard.

relik wrote:If you got noise with an onboard soundcard or just a PCI card, it's probably cause your motherboard is not grounded correctly or your sound settings are wrong and/or you got the internal mic on picking up noise. The difference you hear is most likely just the difference in level settings between the devices/software settings or just cleaner/isolated connections. General playback should have minimal quality difference unless you got other issues going on that would be causing interference or electrical noise with an onboard or expansion style soundcard. Unless you're using DSP or something else that's coloring the sound, there's no additional processing or magical better quality conversion going on with playback on an expensive audio interface and a soundcard. Pretty much all soundcards today do 96kHz/24-bit. Higher end ones still cheaper than an interface do 192KHz/24-bit and even have better A/D converters. Main reason to get an interface is for ease in connecting things or specifically for recording, where the AD converters really matter.

If it's playback quality you're after, you'd be better off getting good monitors, acoustically treating your room, and maybe an outboard DAC connected to your digital in/out on your soundcard.

Well A/D converters like you say make a big difference but also the D/A as well. And anyway we are talking about stock attached to the mobo sounds as apposed to an upgrade not usb vs card debate (I think) and if it is laptop sound we are talking about, I have two laps and the sound through the out put on each of them are shockingly different. It can't be trusted for tune making.

That is just sound though things like latency, portability and even 1/8th inch jacks vs 1/4th inch and balanced jacks have to figure in on it. I was forced to buy the interface I have because the jacks quit working on it due to the fact that the wires just hang out of the back of the machine. I have also had my lap sound go the same way. And anyway those cards may be cheaper than USB but you can put one in a laptop, a lot of people dont even have desktops anymore. We are talking about 100-300 dollars depending on features it isn't really a major investment, it is worth it.

yeah for production it doesn't really matter if you're doing everything inside the box (i.e. not using any hardware).

peeps here would be amazed at some of the names who don't have soundcards (or in some cases, even studio monitors)

Well yeah, laptop you definitely don't have as many options and an interface is pretty much necessary if you're DJing with it or hooking up a bunch of ins/outs. I was thinking more on home studio use with a desktop. Even then though, you'd be surprised at the quality of most onboard audio chipsets these days. Most onboard converters have around a 95dB signal to noise ratio, which is only around 10db less compared to some of the converters in more expensive interfaces like RME. Comes down to your needs really, but it really shouldn't make a difference in production quality if you aren't recording anything.

Well and therein lies the answer I believe. There is a certain threshold at which a more expensive upgrade is necessary depending on your needs.

As far as DJ'in, I can see the extra outputs useful, however I've been learning to use ableton and a trigger finger so I dont need the extra stereo outs, unless I want to use a dj mixer. As far as producing, bar recording I haven't needed an AD converter. However the Signal to noise ratio is a good point, and also the bit quality of the sound card....

Relik, or anyone, would this be sufficient in your mind, I have a realtek ALC202/A integrated Sound Card in my Toshiba Laptop. I believe it has 18-bit ADC and 20-bit DAC resolution, high S/N ratio (>90 dB), Supports (96KHz)

This thread has so far been informative but not yet resolved!

snag a decent one, it will be beneficial in the long run and in the long term despite what some people are saying.
onboard soundcards are mass produced with cheap electronics not meant for production/dj/a to d/d to a converters.
think of how much sense it would make to buy a quality mic and to use an xlr to hi-z 1/4" cable with an adapter to 1/8" inch adapter into your mic in to record.
asio4all works a charm to some extent but drivers meant for a specific piece of hardware will reduce latency and take some taking off your cpu when configured properly.
there are plenty of cheap cards/interfaces out there that are quality.
oooh gay analogy, but if you're playing a video game and your onboard video card will work for it vs getting a dedicated card which do you want? the one that just works or the one that is dedicated and shows all the details?

Ah, decent analogy there, thx for the tip. I'll probably get one sooner than later as I've been wanting to do a lot of audio field/house recording as that's half the fun Also female vocals would be a nice addition