Boycott on Propellerheads software

[futures_untold]

With the release of Reason 5, I'm left feeling scorned by Propellerhead software.

I propose publicly a boycott on Propellerheads software.

---Anyone who thinks I'm trolling, let me remind you that forums are for expressing and discussing opinions, not just for fanboyism / fanaticism. I loved Reason up until v3, and actually feel sad that the program no longer reflects the ideas I wish to see implemented in music software.----

Reason 5 looked promising after the last two announcements. There are even a few updated features I'd like to check out! (Bipolar CV inputs on the Combinator, Kong and Blocks).

Sadly, I am still feeling let down overall...

The pace with which Propellerheads update their software is vexing to me. I realise there are both corporate and practical considerations in software development, yet I sense an air of not caring about the end user in Propellerheads current marketing/release strategy.

(Especially as so many user requests are ommitted in each update*. *Sometimes user requests help improve software for the benefit of everyone, something a few of us forum members fail to recognise.)

I believe Propellerheads are single mindedly chasing profits, and this has alienated me as a potential customer and advertiser of Propellerhead wares. Because of this, I'm boycotting Propellerheads and will make a website dedicated to advising people of the better alternatives that exist for the money. (Similar to in spirit to http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/ for those of you who have missed it)

Why go to such drastic lengths? Perhaps I can help bring about a consumer trend that forces positive action in the software company used to be progressive leaders within the industry. This is how consumerism works, and I will counteract with the methods appropriate to the task.

I believe Propellerheads have lost their edge compared to their heyday. I've already put my money where my mouth is and have bought alternative software.

It upsets me because once upon a time I thought Reason was the bees knees! I have spent many hours happily using it! In todays music software market, Propellerheads wares are lackluster.

I want to be able to use Reason because I like the rack style user interface and creative wiring opportunities it presents. Yet with the limitations and lack of features and the general air of corporatism displayed by Propellerheads, I won't support Reason. (I bought Synthedit for wiring up creative ideas/devices).

I still hope somewhere deep down that one day things will change. I'd like to see Recycle 3 released and another upgrade to Reason within the year (2010).

I'm sadly skeptical. I feel that by the time upgrades appear, I'll be deeply rooted to the better alternatives that exist that I have purchased for myself.

Best of luck with the release of R5. I keenly await further news of Propellerheads software updates!

Pat

---------------

Ps, I've expressed valid opinion.

Present counter arguements to make this thread interesting and to help people decide for themselves the truth of the situation.

Reason 5 will no doubt be successful based on the amount of newbies and fanboys out there. For those of you who are happy with the status qou, please understand that this release (like Reason 4) leaves a sizable portion of customers and potential users underwhelmed and upset.

Propellerheads will benefit themselves if they can accommodate such users. People like myself go out of our way to promote products and services we believe in.

Word of mouth is afterall, perhaps the mosteffective decider of a products success.

Your opinions are appreciated!

Pat

[Phigure]

I support the boycott!

Not that I ever wanted any Propellerhead Software in the first place, I tried Reason 4 and hated it. I definitely agree with what you've said though.

[futures_untold]

No, I'm still boycotting them.

I don't like the fact they don't listen to user feature requests.

And they have a lock on the Rex format, but are not doing anyone any favours by keeping Recycle as the only tool that can create Rexs.

Anyone who has used Adobe Audition or other real audio editors knows Recycle is actually outdated and shit.

So no money for Props then. Hopefully consumer action will force them to be more proactive!

I have mixed feelings towards the props, but you have to admit they make the most solid software out there. I wouldent say they don't listen to their users, they just don't talk to them and let them know whats in the works. But slowly but surely the user requests are making there way in, it just takes 20 times longer than most companys. I would rather have Reason the way it is in that respect compared to Ableton where they try and fit as many user requests in a short time and and up releasing buggy problematic software.

At the end of the day I put years into learning Reason and I have a hard time learning other DAWs. Whateves. I'm happy where Reason and Record are at now.

Fair enough, use whatever you find most comfortable and suitable for your pursuits. Propellerheads software is extremely stable, something I respect immensely.

As you say, Propellerheads also take 20 times longer to implement anything than others. Propellerhead lack of discourse with consumers seems is a negative thing for me. Personally, I think they should lose out for being slack. Why reward such closed developers who are producing outdated software? (Anyone remember 3D Realms/Duke Forever? Is Pro Tools really the best DAW ever, or is this just legacy thinking? etc etc)

[redraven]

I SUPPORT! Reason seems to be doing half assed updates just to keep enough interest to spend money on them... Imagine Line has free updates for life so once you purchase their product you get updates for LIFE, that should show how companies should work. I understand that software development is not easy and they want money for their efforts but now it seems they want to almost bait people into continuing to buy their products to get the (slight) update in software...

But I digress, this is a very good idea and I support it 100%

[kaiori breathe]

I haven't decided what I'm doing Re: Reason 5 yet, Neptune looks pretty good to me. Definitely what I was hoping for in Reason 5, but I feel a bit let down because that seems to be all we're getting.

Dr. Octo Rex seems a bit pointless to me. Dr.Rex was a pretty redundant unit to begin with given the sampler. So now instead of having one redundant unit, I have 8 redundant units rolled into one. Which isn't even an improvement because if you have the combinator in reason 4 you essentially have Dr.Octo Rex (from what I've seen of it anyway)

Kong looks OK, but ultimately I probably wont use it because really, it is just a glorified drum sampler (I say this because their physical modeling drum generators are a bit pointless for me since all synthesized drums - in my opinion - are just awful sounding). Just a little useless for me, I'm sure there are plenty out there who'll like the physical modeling thing though. Still seems a bit redundant though, even for them, since if you like those sounds, chances are you've already been making them in something else or already have samples of what you want.

That said, depending on how the routing works I may be able to find some use for the effects that come with Kong. It's not much of a consolation though.

Blocks seem OK. But again, a little redundant when you have copy and paste. They've really just saved me around 7 or 8 seconds in an hour with this feature. Not really enough for me to be impressed.

Self containing samples is good, about time.

I don't know what I'll do really. I don't feel like spending that much money to essentially buy neptune and shave 7 or 8 seconds off work flow... I think I'll wait for the next update.

[abZ]

Well Reason is stable and probably more stable than anything else out there there is no question from me about that and I loved that fact when I was running an Athlon 650 with 512 megs of ram. Stability is not that much of an issue anymore. The only thing Reason has on other daws is the fact it is so easy to pass project files back and forth between users. Although I see already there are developers working on DAWs that take that idea to a new level. Their updates have all been underwhelming for me. Aside from whatever update it was they added the skream and reverb. Reason 4 I used long enough to get used to the sequencer changes but SORRY Thor does not impress me. They lost me after that I am so happy they did. Forced my lazy ass to learn a real DAW. Much better off now. It is really easy for me to join the crusade because I have no plans on sending them any more money no matter what they do in the future. Done.

[ninjadog]

I can't help but agree with most of your comments. Props did make some huge innovations back in the late 90's early 00's. But I don't think there being snotty and don't care about there users. I mean right now since I am on 3.0 I can get Record for $150 plus a free copy of version 4 and Reason 5/Record 1.5 when it's released for free as well. Thats huge! It shows me they do care.

Some of their decisions are a little questionable like the partnership with Line 6. And then there's the whole VST thing. I can't help but laugh when people are looking the closest thing to Reason devices in VST form. So they invent Rewire as an answer but who needs Rewire if you don't use Reason? But you know as well any anyone you can't please everyone.

I can empathize with them about there tight lip approach, because it bit them in the ass in the past promising stuff and not being able to deliver. What's better; saying you'll do all kinds of shit and not delivering. Or saying you'll do a few things really well when you know you can make good on your word. I wish it wasn't so black and white for them, if they could say this is what were working on but it might happen in a few years or maybe even never I would be OK with that.

In my experience the only reason I strayed from Reason was the no audio in, what a stupid decision that was by the props. If anything straying taught me how much I liked using Reason, and how simple and powerful things like routing the cables can be. It also forced me to learn about audio engineering as you can't just make a synth and expect it to sound great on it's own. Doing simple routing in other DAW's was more like working on a spreadsheet, which is not as intuitive.

I don't think there is a better GUI out there either. Everything coming together in the rack is just such a good idea. I absolutely hate how VST's just have this floating window always getting obstructed n shit.

I can also agree Reasons sequencer is kind of crappy, and because of that I got used to working with the matrix step sequencing everything. I also haven't used 4.0's new sequencer that much but it will be a huge adjustment for me when I do and I'm not looking forward to it. But I'm sure I can deal with it and maybe even end up liking it once I get to know it.

I don't know why I'm sitting here saying all this stuff, it's not like I'm going to change anyone's mind about the software. I guess I feel the same way about a boycott. You will just attract a bunch of people who use other stuff and have a general dislike for Reason. No one who uses Reason is going to stop using it because you ask them to. There going to stop using it because of their own decisions and Reasons limitations even tho there can be a workaround found for every limitation because of it's flexible nature. Especially now with the new features coming into play people that did stop using it years ago are going to come back.
For every person that decides to boycott there will be at least 10 getting into it. Reminds me of the Simpsons episode when Moe stole homers recipe for the flaming moe, and Homer is trying to tell moe he lost a customer, but moe can't hear him over the crowd and the ringing of the cash register because he is too busy making new customers and shit loads of money.


Holy fuck thats my longest post ever!

[samurai]

i'm boycotting my mpc.

ps i like the reason sequencer.

pps line 6 distribute propellerhead products in the us i believe. that is the reason for the partnership i think.

ppps everybody on the props forum is a fanboy.

[decree]

I <3 Propellerheads
they are a great team (and private) they make truely great software that always has a different and nice approach to things, the best part is how adaptable reason and record are and how they mold so much from person to person.

I will always support propellerheads, then again I don't look at it from a monetary point of view

[ninjadog]

ppps everybody on the props forum is a fanboy.

I think I might be the only one that's not, although it might be hard to tell with my post. If something fits me better I will switch without a doubt, but it suits the way I work like how some other DAW fits the way you work better. Who the fuck cares, were all taking a different road to the same destination.

[samurai]

yeah sometimes i like working in reason+record. sometimes i like working in renoise. different race horses for different race courses and all that fancy jazz shit.

[abZ]

I don't think there is a better GUI out there either. Everything coming together in the rack is just such a good idea. I absolutely hate how VST's just have this floating window always getting obstructed n shit.!

I couldn't disagree more but your opinion is well you opinion. The rack in reason gets so crazy once you really get going in a tune. I like the fact in Live when I click on the track I want to work in, boom there is all the vst and I go to another track that all dissapears leaving we with just what I want to see nothing more nothing less. I work with two monitors and I always drag the vst windows to the second monitor and they appear there unobstructed every time after.

[samurai]

i need to get live sometime in the next year..

[ninjadog]

I don't think there is a better GUI out there either. Everything coming together in the rack is just such a good idea. I absolutely hate how VST's just have this floating window always getting obstructed n shit.!

I couldn't disagree more but your opinion is well you opinion. The rack in reason gets so crazy once you really get going in a tune. I like the fact in Live when I click on the track I want to work in, boom there is all the vst and I go to another track that all dissapears leaving we with just what I want to see nothing more nothing less. I work with two monitors and I always drag the vst windows to the second monitor and they appear there unobstructed every time after.

That is true, but like anything you deal with it.

[symmetricalsounds]

but you have to admit they make the most solid software out there.

much easier to make reason stable as they don't need to worry about how vsts may react with it.

[ninjadog]

[dubmatters]

I found reason very easy to pick up and enjoyed the UI with the rack etc.

I just felt like you were locked in, forced to use the built in synths etc.

I've got used to Logic and find version 9 very powerful and enjoy the plethora of awesome plugins available.

I haven't seen any features/vids in reason 4 or 5 that would make me even consider buying it.

[back2onett]

I wouldn't say Propellerheads don't care about they're customers (have you seen the discounts they give to existing customers?) but I definitely think they need to listen to more user feedback and maybe be a bit more open with any developments they're working on. Aside from that I'd say Reason is a pretty good piece of software, I tried it out and pretty much hated it but it was stable and everything seemed to be in the right place, just didn't suit my workflow at all

[staticcast]

Uh, am I missing something here? I mean, I think Reason's pretty shit anyway, but that's beside the point. If you don't think it's good (anymore), why don't you just switch to something else and leave it at that?

I'm not sure how a lacklustre product and infrequent updates really warrants demanding a public boycott. Usually you call for a public boycott in response to outrageously offensive conduct on the part of a company or organisation, not because you think their main offering is a bit rubbish.

[Ongelegen]

I haven't decided what I'm doing Re: Reason 5 yet, Neptune looks pretty good to me. Definitely what I was hoping for in Reason 5, but I feel a bit let down because that seems to be all we're getting.

Neptune is records new feature, not sure if reason 5 will get it as well