Dubstepforum.com

How do you detect the key a tune is in when the bassline plays an actual riff ?
I think I once read the key is either the 1st or the last note of the bass riff but I'm not sure.

it is usually the first note. but doesnt have to be.

find what notes are comfortable in the key and then work out what key has those notes in. you can look up on google or wiki or something what notes are in what key if you dont know.

chances are for pop stuff, are good place to start lookin will be be cmaj or a min.

yup, usually first or last note, but not necessarily, best thing to do is sit and work out each note that the bass is actually playing. Then listen to the other parts and see what notes they're playing. You'll usually end up with two possibilities a major key or a minor key, if you just use common sense at this stage and listen and decide whether it sounds happy or sad you'll have it sussed.

If you play an instrument it's a bit easier though, you can just jam in different keys over it till you find one that fits.

Thanks guys

I wish I knew more about keys and stuff

I just throw notes in wherever and whenever and just pick whatever sounds good, I have no idea what im doing "musically"

I was actually looking for how to do this last night. Cheers!

step 1) download Mixed in Key.
step 2) use.

ok listen, this is not to get all snobbish and better than you guys, cause i am not. But really, get som theory going. I've been playing jazz trumpet and piano in about 8 years now, so i kinda know music theory. And it really helps. Im not saying that it's the only way, but it's always nice to have more tools, i really find it easy writing, because i know theory so well, so i can easily see chord progression and scales. You can go by ear, but it's always nice to know what you're doing right? You dont need to get all bebopish and know everything, but i think that getting the basics down is a good idea. It's not too hard, there are tons of books and websites. Just go to your local library, you'll find something. You will be happy you did afterwards!

Plasticsun wrote:ok listen, this is not to get all snobbish and better than you guys, cause i am not. But really, get som theory going. I've been playing jazz trumpet and piano in about 8 years now, so i kinda know music theory. And it really helps. Im not saying that it's the only way, but it's always nice to have more tools, i really find it easy writing, because i know theory so well, so i can easily see chord progression and scales. You can go by ear, but it's always nice to know what you're doing right? You dont need to get all bebopish and know everything, but i think that getting the basics down is a good idea. It's not too hard, there are tons of books and websites. Just go to your local library, you'll find something. You will be happy you did afterwards!

alright calm down, its not a competition. some people havent been playing trumpet for 8 years. and i dont think a quick solution will be to learn 8 years of theory.

but yeah, theory is useful and shouldnt be avoided.

samkablaam wrote:

Plasticsun wrote:ok listen, this is not to get all snobbish and better than you guys, cause i am not. But really, get som theory going. I've been playing jazz trumpet and piano in about 8 years now, so i kinda know music theory. And it really helps. Im not saying that it's the only way, but it's always nice to have more tools, i really find it easy writing, because i know theory so well, so i can easily see chord progression and scales. You can go by ear, but it's always nice to know what you're doing right? You dont need to get all bebopish and know everything, but i think that getting the basics down is a good idea. It's not too hard, there are tons of books and websites. Just go to your local library, you'll find something. You will be happy you did afterwards!

alright calm down, its not a competition. some people havent been playing trumpet for 8 years. and i dont think a quick solution will be to learn 8 years of theory.

but yeah, theory is useful and shouldnt be avoided.

That was'nt was i was saying. I am good at theory. I am allowed to say that. Cause i am. But i'm not saying you need to be as good as me at all, cause in dubstep, and in a lot of music in general, you dont need to. Im just saying that getting the basics down about how chords and scales fit together is a good idea, and not very hard to understand either, as long as you have an ear for music, and i am sure you have.
EDIT: And i know it's not a competition. You're not better just because you're good at theory, it does'nt make you a better musician, but it gives you the tools to become a better musician.

Learn intervals

learn what a 5th a 4th a 6th a 7th sounds like

this knowledge applied with what scales sound like (mostly major, minor, harmonic minor, phrygian, dorian)
will allow you to nail the most likely root note.
i say most likely because some producers can be completely tone deaf when it comes to production and it might just be randomly selected notes

also keep in mind that sub bass may be starting on the 5th of the scale while the rest of the tune diddlies as normal, just so the bass doesn't sink too low
ex.
high end riff in C minor= C, D#, D
but the bass bounces around on G, G#, F, etc

so in which case you would probably go off of the Cminor,

Rickmansworth wrote:step 1) download Mixed in Key.
step 2) use.

I'd rather use Rapid Evolution which is more accurate and free but it's still far from being accurate enough.
I only trust my ears for that task.

Plasticsun wrote:ok listen, this is not to get all snobbish and better than you guys, cause i am not. But really, get som theory going. I've been playing jazz trumpet and piano in about 8 years now, so i kinda know music theory. And it really helps. Im not saying that it's the only way, but it's always nice to have more tools, i really find it easy writing, because i know theory so well, so i can easily see chord progression and scales. You can go by ear, but it's always nice to know what you're doing right? You dont need to get all bebopish and know everything, but i think that getting the basics down is a good idea. It's not too hard, there are tons of books and websites. Just go to your local library, you'll find something. You will be happy you did afterwards!

While this is 100% relevant for production, learning music theory for finding the key of a tune seems like an unnecessary effort to me

daft tnuc wrote:

Plasticsun wrote:ok listen, this is not to get all snobbish and better than you guys, cause i am not. But really, get som theory going. I've been playing jazz trumpet and piano in about 8 years now, so i kinda know music theory. And it really helps. Im not saying that it's the only way, but it's always nice to have more tools, i really find it easy writing, because i know theory so well, so i can easily see chord progression and scales. You can go by ear, but it's always nice to know what you're doing right? You dont need to get all bebopish and know everything, but i think that getting the basics down is a good idea. It's not too hard, there are tons of books and websites. Just go to your local library, you'll find something. You will be happy you did afterwards!

While this is 100% relevant for production, learning music theory for finding the key of a tune seems like an unnecessary effort to me

Haha, touché
You're right, theres definately other ways of doing that,. But yeah, it is relevant for production.

I agree with Plasticsun, without any theory whatsoever, you're just diddling around. Do you want your music to be the product of diddling? That's like getting a degree in science by guessing answers on your multiple choice exam.
Every little bit helps get you closer to the point where you can actually design the music and shape it the way you want it harmonically and rhythmically.
Once you get to the root of it all you realize how simple it is.

Major scale, most other scales are just modes of that, chords are built by playing odd intervals aka the scale with every second note skipped 1,3,5. Add on a 7 for a 7th chord, continue counting upwards for more extensions. Most of the different variations on chords come from different modes of the major scale, basically instead of starting the major scale on the first note(say we're in C major, C,E,G.B), start on the second and build a chord off that(D,F,A,C). You get a -7 chord, a minor chord with a natural six if you want to keep going into the upper extensions. Continue this way for all notes in the major scale and you'll get all the chords you'll hear in the vast majority of music that isn't jazz or experimental.

Easier way to understand it is on a piano. Just make a c major triad (c,e,g) and move it up one note at a time through the scale (all the white keys) Since not all the intervals in the scale are the same distance apart, you're going to get different chords on each note.

Without going into harmonic and melodic minors, diminished whole tone scales etc. there's only one scale per key per song, all the chords you can build are either built off the root note of the key/scale or off one of the other notes (you can think of that as modes) I know most people are gonna be like "wtf are you talking about dude that's not simple at all" but just know that it's not as complicated as you think. Once you realize that scales and chords are the same thing (chords are just playing a set pattern starting on different notes of the main scale) everything clicks into place.

How all this bullshit relates to finding the key of a song: If you have say a minor 7th chord followed by a major 7th chord a half step up (let's say B,D,F,A then C,E,G,B), you can identify those chords as belonging to the Phyrgian and Lydian modes of the major scale, the modes that are build from starting on the 3 and 4 of the major scale. Then it's just a matter of counting down a 3rd from the B chord to arrive at G Major, the parent key of the song. Makes shit a lotttt easier.
I know a lot of this in unnecessary and more useful from a production standpoint, but I just wanted to explain how some background theory will make it very easy for you to do seemingly difficult things like figuring out a key or chord progression of a song or writing your own.


My apologies to everyone that had to wade through all that and didn't get anything. To properly understand you'll need someone to take you step by step slowly through all the background stuff that I might have hopped over to keep this post brief ( yeah right it's already a damn novel! Sorry, short as I can get it) Lots of resources on the intertubes you can read up on.

tl;dr Music theory is helpful for everything. Although it seems complicated at first, once you get how it all ties together, it's very simple.

What Kaiori said lol. For say an acapella I just run my way chromatically up the piano till I find the first note - then I play around till I find the right key.

Yeah I know a bit of theory too and played instruments for a while (guitar since I was a kid, piano for several years). I think it does definitely help - but I also think that its unfair to say its a "must." The reason I say this is that I'm always in awe of these amazing producers who don't know any theory. Like Burial and Ikonika.

Big Up Guys. Z.

zitanb wrote:For say an acapella I just run my way chromatically up the piano till I find the first note - then I play around till I find the right key.

Wouldn't it be much easier to find the key of the instrumental tho?

Would EarMaster Pro or anything like that help with identifying the key of a tune?

tylerblue wrote:Would EarMaster Pro or anything like that help with identifying the key of a tune?

Yes! Do it, there's no quesiton. Some people would think earmaster is silly, and a waste of time, but it's reaally a good programme. It helps you so much in getting better at navigating harmonics. I have been doing it, and it just really helps.

Plasticsun wrote:

tylerblue wrote:Would EarMaster Pro or anything like that help with identifying the key of a tune?

Yes! Do it, there's no quesiton. Some people would think earmaster is silly, and a waste of time, but it's reaally a good programme. It helps you so much in getting better at navigating harmonics. I have been doing it, and it just really helps.

Cheers, I'll definitely have a go with it