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if you cant qualify for uni (because of your grades or other reasons), look into a btec national certificate in music technology, leading to a diploma/degree in similar

it covers all the basics, and prepairs you for uni

mmjdw wrote:With the eventual aim of working in a studio, or something along those lines..?

TBH If you can find a commercial studio still open in three years and the ability to pay you a living wage you'll be very lucky mate.

Pedro Sánchez wrote:

mmjdw wrote:With the eventual aim of working in a studio, or something along those lines..?

TBH If you can find a commercial studio still open in three years and the ability to pay you a living wage you'll be very lucky mate.

then something else

mmjdw wrote:

Pedro Sánchez wrote:

mmjdw wrote:With the eventual aim of working in a studio, or something along those lines..?

TBH If you can find a commercial studio still open in three years and the ability to pay you a living wage you'll be very lucky mate.

then something else

Not saying you won't it's just getting harder find them jobs and there is more competition for them.

Pedro Sánchez wrote:

mmjdw wrote:

Pedro Sánchez wrote:

mmjdw wrote:With the eventual aim of working in a studio, or something along those lines..?

TBH If you can find a commercial studio still open in three years and the ability to pay you a living wage you'll be very lucky mate.

then something else

Not saying you won't it's just getting harder find them jobs and there is more competition for them.

Very good point, I know a few people who're now in their 30s and did a music degree at university, spent time within their 20s working in studios and now? the studios are closed down or down to 1 engineer and thats it...

They're all working freelance or back in university, ones studying broadcasting and the other 2 are training to become music lawyers and another is teaching music production at college

The way the industry is these days you'll have to be VERY VERY special to make a living as an engineer unless you start your own studio.. then you still have to be exceptional to get customers through the door.

If you can play instruments, I would try and get into the session musician world, while having a part time job... Its probably the easiest way to be in and out of studios.

Your better off learning sound design for game, film, advertisement, ect. and taking some marketing, ect. on top of it. Worst off, you can move to a city and get a job making powerpoints in an office somewhere...

Sound + Graphics + Marketing ... Then learn something specialized to the commercial field you wnana get into, if its sound for games, study programming, if its sound for films, study some theatre and cinema technology.

In the modern times of music, like said above, you wont find much direct market for engineers, everyone who still makes ANY money from music is running labels or working freelance + normal 9-5 job... Even in commercial music, 99% of your top40 artists are going to have go too producers, and probably have an simple booth/rack studio in thier houses, as half of the ametuers in the world do already, haha... Working with sound is going to be a perk of a job in the creative or marketing industry rather then the focus, from what I can see.

I dont know if this will be any help but as a suggestion I did a BTEC in Music Technology and then a BSC in Creative Music and Sound Technology, I learnt next to nothing on both courses mainly because A) The tutors are all engineers that dont really want to teach you anything they are all just their to get a steady wage (no offense to any music tech teachers on here this is just my experience) and B) in group work (which it almost all is) there will always be someone that has used a desk frequentley before and will take over and if they are nice will show you the ropes, you spend most of your time arguing about what kind of music to make before settling on constructing some piece of shit record that is a mash up of 5 different genres in a bad way because no one can agree but you have no time to fix it. There is alot of competition on the course between people, everyone wants to go on about how they DJ here and there or have played in this band or that and to be honest towards the end of it I really wondered why I had wasted so much time in doing the course the only thing I got out of it was learning about acoustics which I have since gone on to do a masters in and personally I find alot more interesting.

With regards to being an engineer I did some work experience which I would highly recommend, I sent off e-mails to all the studios I could find in London and luckily one of them got back to me and said I could work for a week due to the fact that there transfer engineer was going on holiday (he studied ship building by the way so you dont necessarily need a degree relating to music) it was very fun and interesting and I also swung an interview with a different studio at the end of the week due to there recommendation, they offered me a job as a runner working 6 days a week for a starting salary of £12,000 not to be unkind but that is how everyone starts and I didnt want to be 30 and still earning next to nothing after spending all that money on my uni course so I decided it just wasnt for me, my advice if your 18 now I would do a BTEC Fast Track one year in Music Tech and possibley top up to a HND and then contact studios you will be 20 so by the time your 22-23 depending on the size of the studio you could be moved up to transfer engineer get a bit more money and then move towards what you want to do, you will one hundred percent learn more from the engineers in the studio than you ever would from wasting 3 years on a university course and be paid for doing it meet alot of contacts do alot of running to other studios meet alot of random b list celebritys etc, im not saying any of this to put you off I just felt it would be better to share this experience to see if it helps but really at the end of the day the main reason most people go to uni is just to have a good time so its worth doing it for that but its an expensive bit of debauchery.

if you're dead set on condemning yourself to studying something related to music in college then just do a music technology course. look at the different courses available to you and pick something that looks like it has a nice variety of modules (don't just pick something because half the course is studio work or something). along the may end up liking one specific aspect of your course. follow that at post-graduate level. but don't go into your course with a mindframe of "all i want to do is work in a studio" because you may end up with a broken heart...

i've found that I can learn on my own more about cutting edge music production by listening to music and making it than by learning at state college... those courses taught me very little or nothing.

you could pay a bunch for private recording/music school.. but is that worth it? if you're looking to get paid, why don't you assess your skills as of right now and run with whatever you have going. if music is the main skill, then develop your art and dedication to the highest level possible. then start selling it to people. that's the path i'm on and it seems to be going better than if i would've stuck with college music courses.

Good advice up there, but I've got better. Go down to Mc Donalds, and get a job flipping burgers for 40 hours a week and getting paid a quarter of what your rent is. This will be the greatest training for your post graduation life in music.

Or you could study something valuable to society, make enough money to have a wife and kids and some type of dwelling, and die gracefully at the appropriate time, all the while making music on a daily basis.

Pretty much the options unless you are a super star. You might have an easier time making it as a football superstar (in england, at least )

yup.. be nobody or somebody.. your choice. me, i'm not tryin to raise no kids..

No problem, if you stop fucking (people of the opposite sex).

Forgot to mention, regarding the McDonalds route, borrow 100,000 dollars or pounds or whatever, stack up that cash, burn it, then work that job at McDonalds that doesn't even cover your living expenses, AND pay back that money.

Slavery is looking better and better every day, isn't it?

nowaysj wrote:No problem, if you stop fucking (people of the opposite sex).

Forgot to mention, regarding the McDonalds route, borrow 100,000 dollars or pounds or whatever, stack up that cash, burn it, then work that job at McDonalds that doesn't even cover your living expenses, AND pay back that money.

Slavery is looking better and better every day, isn't it?

The one great thing about going to university in this country is that you wont run up a debt as large as that one and in a lot of cases can get alot of help with university course fees which are no where near as high as in the states, I read somewhere that a Harvard Graduate will normally finish with around 100-250,000 dollars of debt which is fine if your a business major but how can a history major pay that kind of figure back in 10 years!

Something else I didnt point out which I think an earlier posted mentioned is that its really a good thing to have music as a hobby, I would rather have gone to Uni and studied something more attainable and had music as a hobby because the truth of the matter is that even if you do work in a studio are you really working in the right field of music if your mixing down the new take that single and having to listen to gary barlow crooning on repeat for 12 days I would rather have another 9-5 that interests me, sometimes you just shouldnt mix work and pleasure, I know most people on this forum me included have dreams of having their stuff played out by DJ's or earning some shillings off their releases but it is fun to just sit down and make music to pass the time the same way some people go fishing.

Well I recomend doing a more wide music tech degree than a purely studio/production based one. I'm doing one which covers sound design for TV, scoring for films, multimedia stuff (so film editing, making flash content), signal processing (making plug ins) amoungst other stuff. A large percentage of graduates go on to get work in sound design or game audio, so a music tech course which covers lots of different ground gives you loads of options.

Do some searches on UCAS, go to open days and ask what have previous graduates gone on to do.

From my Music Tech HND, I learned that bands are middle class wankstains, studio technicians have the social skills of vikings and tutors were once shit d'n'b producers who couldn't get a label release so decided to pass on there useless knowledge and power trip for £15p/h to 17 year olds. I learned from the little bit of work i've done in the 'industry' that it is full of talentless bullshitters who would suck a crusty cock just to hold some type of position in the 'industry'.

I have a Master's in Contemporary Music

It was brilliant for intellectual stimulation, introduced and got me to like music from beyond my own generation and scope, taught me new ways of playing and approaching music, and helped me connect with other musicians I really got along with


but if all I cared about was money or a knowledge towards studio set-up and engineering... I'd have done something else

i wouldnt recommend studying music producion in uni. i just finished my foundation, could do a third year and get a bachelors but i cba to be hounest. more debt, more friends ur not gonna stay in touch with.. and tbh i didnt really learn much either.. most likely my fault but when ur getting formally educated on something that u actually enjoy it drains the fun out of it.

one thing i MIGHT do is go to point blank in east london and do a short intensive course. sick defected records style mix downs and maybe a little more technical knowledge such as interesting fills and edits is what i want to work on so i can make tracks that no one can tess.. all about being specific about what u want out here..

but anyway, buying a few books on the industry and checking out a few vids on youtube on production >>> spending thousands on uni ANYDAY

mostly been covered, but you also need to remember that if you're going to be working in a studio, you can't really choose what music you work on. (unless you own the studio, and even then you'll probably find that to pay the bills you need to be doing advert music ripping off mozart/sigur ros/moby/peace orchestra etc, you have to be pretty versatile these days)

specialising in 'computer based music production' is going to be useless if you can't mic up a drum kit, acoustic guitar, saxophone, glockenspiel etc....

Pedro Sánchez wrote:From my Music Tech HND, I learned that bands are middle class wankstains, studio technicians have the social skills of vikings and tutors were once shit d'n'b producers who couldn't get a label release so decided to pass on there useless knowledge and power trip for £15p/h to 17 year olds. I learned from the little bit of work i've done in the 'industry' that it is full of talentless bullshitters who would suck a crusty cock just to hold some type of position in the 'industry'.

Ha ha ha, so good it's beyond sig worthy, I'm gonna have this engraved into 24k gold and hung on my studio wall.