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Hey everyone im new here and new to production as well. One of my problems is that every time i sit down and try to make a track I feel kind of lost and don't know where to start. I can make a basic bassline and drumbeat (nothing to crazy, but i know the basics) and know how to use samples but when it comes down to putting it all together i never know where to start. (I'm trying to make some dubstep/DnB btw)

I was wondering what are some of your guys methods for starting a song? For example; do you plan out everything you wana do in your head before you start, or do you just play around mixing and matching different things, you know like find a cool bassline and then build the song around that? Do you think its better to start with the drums and then the bass or the bass then drums?

I'm sure everyone has their own way of doing this but like I said i'm new to production and am looking for some guidance, I'm curious to see the different ways you guys start something.

Thanks!

A lot of people will probably disagree with me but I think the best place to start is with a loop; get a good 16 bar or so loop and make sure it sounds as good as you can get it to and then start thinking about the structure of your song (long sections with a lot of modulation/movement, breakdowns, interludes) from there you can disect or build on your original loop and use that to build the other sections of your song. Only problem with this technique is it's possible to get stuck in the loop stage and the song never progresses beyond that.

I never have any idea what my song will sound like when I start, I might have a basic idea of a melody or maybe a drum pattern I like but I write all the main bits as I go along (which imo is a bad idea but I still do it anyway)

If I'm doing any extensive sound design I always do that in another project just because there's so much trial and error and unecessary processing that it keeps the main song project from getting messy (I've had up to 20 mixer tracks at use simultaneously for one synth so I wouldn't want all of that in my main project)

go with the flow

Make a beat, add more instruments, then add special f/x. Add your symbols and hi-hat last with one take recording over the whole thing(for that special live feel.) Trust me.

- Most dubstep tracks are maybe 4 - 7 minutes. Look at how the other tunes break down in terms of spacing. See where that ambient break is ? Ambiance is v e r y important. Your tune will only be as good as the breakdowns. Make sure you make it so damn loud it'll split your eardrums. give people the chance to turn their stereo down at home. Imitate your favorite artists until you find your own style.

Good luck ! - Check my dubstep mixes here -

yeah.. just do what comes out!!
most of the time i start with a beat then pick a basic idea for a progression.. and then just keep adding..
sometimes i start with a pad..
the tunes that I've finished from beginning to end(and liked) were all started at the intro!

The best advice i have is to stay positive and experiment.. focus on what you can do and not what you think you cant!

beginning. middle. end.

send to label.

$

EBR wrote:Make a beat, add more instruments, then add special f/x. Add your symbols and hi-hat last with one take recording over the whole thing(for that special live feel.) Trust me.

- Most dubstep tracks are maybe 4 - 7 minutes. Look at how the other tunes break down in terms of spacing. See where that ambient break is ? Ambiance is v e r y important. Your tune will only be as good as the breakdowns. Make sure you make it so damn loud it'll split your eardrums. give people the chance to turn their stereo down at home. Imitate your favorite artists until you find your own style.

Good luck ! - Check my dubstep mixes here -

Dont do any of this.

Basic A wrote: Dont do any of this.

Translation

Basic A wrote: I'm too much of a lazy, bitch to contribute, so i'll slag on someone else just to show my ass.

A stands for ASS in his case.

sonikBC wrote:nothing to crazy, but i know the basics

there's the problem. forget the basics; start with the crazy.

think of it this way: no one needs a dubstep tune that's got the snare on 3 and a wobble bass, but EVERYONE needs amazing songs that just happen to have the snare on 3 and a wobble bass.

get the amazing, or even just catchy, down 1st.

Sharmaji wrote:

sonikBC wrote:nothing to crazy, but i know the basics

there's the problem. forget the basics; start with the crazy.

think of it this way: no one needs a dubstep tune that's got the snare on 3 and a wobble bass, but EVERYONE needs amazing songs that just happen to have the snare on 3 and a wobble bass.

get the amazing, or even just catchy, down 1st.

i really didn't get what you just said but it made perfectly sense to me!

it's all about letting it flow, when you think of putting together a track you got to break it down in phases.

1st) composition
2nd) sequencing
3rd) automation
4rth) mixing/eq-ing/levelling
5th) (if you are part of the chosen ones) MASTERING

try to not mix those phases too much since that woud slow your flor, i like to first got the idea of a song, just a loop and me messing on my keyboard, recording everything, after a couple of j's and some beers something good will come out, but i don't start sequencing on my daw until i got every last drop of creativity out of my system-

then proceed to the other phases accordingly to your pace, it's all about a catchy idea, it could be a bass line or a nice lead sound, maybe some vocals, just concentrate on composing and don't stop that flow

Bang head on keyboard and pray for good results..............But really, it just depends on the day and tune. sometimes i'm hearing sick drums in my head. So i'll write them first then the rest of the track around it. sometimes bass first. I've found that anybody that i know that sticks to a formula ends up sounding the same with every track they make.

back2onett wrote:A lot of people will probably disagree with me but I think the best place to start is with a loop; get a good 16 bar or so loop and make sure it sounds as good as you can get it to and then start thinking about the structure of your song (long sections with a lot of modulation/movement, breakdowns, interludes) from there you can disect or build on your original loop and use that to build the other sections of your song. Only problem with this technique is it's possible to get stuck in the loop stage and the song never progresses beyond that.

I never have any idea what my song will sound like when I start, I might have a basic idea of a melody or maybe a drum pattern I like but I write all the main bits as I go along (which imo is a bad idea but I still do it anyway)

If I'm doing any extensive sound design I always do that in another project just because there's so much trial and error and unecessary processing that it keeps the main song project from getting messy (I've had up to 20 mixer tracks at use simultaneously for one synth so I wouldn't want all of that in my main project)

Wow this is exactly how I work too.

For me, I either start with the intro, and than just gradually progress through the track in order...so make the drop, any breaks, that stuff...

OR
If I have written a sick bassline, I'll take a while and layout most of the songs bass patterns, and than start an intro, and build everything around that....

Than mixdown, my ghetto mastering, and upload for people to enjoy or maybe hate

You don't have to make full tracks, especially if you are just beginning. It took me a long time to be able to do it. It's like trying to write a 10000 word essay on a topic you don't know that much about - if you keep studying 10000 won't be enough to get all your ideas in!

Basically I think just make what comes out, keeping going and make things you like, and the rest will sort itself out.

Mostly I muck about with drums, bass and melodic elements until I get a nice groove going (as said above). The thing is, I only continue past this stage if I really like it. Not a concious decision, but that is what usually happens. Once I have something I like, I make some variations on the original theme, to see where it goes. I also add at least a basic intro. This doesn't always happen in this order or anthing like it, and often that is when I make something really interesting.

I used to try and make a breakdown in every track, but this lead to formulaic tracks. I'd think "It all sounds so cool right now but it has to have a break down" and then go through all sorts of headaches to give it one that didn't really belong there in the first place.

CBK81 wrote:

back2onett wrote:A lot of people will probably disagree with me but I think the best place to start is with a loop; get a good 16 bar or so loop and make sure it sounds as good as you can get it to and then start thinking about the structure of your song (long sections with a lot of modulation/movement, breakdowns, interludes) from there you can disect or build on your original loop and use that to build the other sections of your song. Only problem with this technique is it's possible to get stuck in the loop stage and the song never progresses beyond that.

I never have any idea what my song will sound like when I start, I might have a basic idea of a melody or maybe a drum pattern I like but I write all the main bits as I go along (which imo is a bad idea but I still do it anyway)

If I'm doing any extensive sound design I always do that in another project just because there's so much trial and error and unecessary processing that it keeps the main song project from getting messy (I've had up to 20 mixer tracks at use simultaneously for one synth so I wouldn't want all of that in my main project)

Wow this is exactly how I work too.

Agreed.

I would only add that I like to start with one idea - a granular synthesis patch, a breakbeat sample, anything that gets me amped to start working. Everything I add after that responds to the first idea, rather than aiming for a specific sound. I don't always get where I mean to go this way, but at least it doesn't sound like I'm trying to be someone else.

Find a sample that I like or havae ripped earlier in the day

Loop sampler and run through various effects chains, bouncing out as I go

Chop & repeat until I have something that I like

Put sample into sequencer and build the tune around it.

EBR wrote:

Basic A wrote: Dont do any of this.

Translation

Basic A wrote: I'm too much of a lazy, bitch to contribute, so i'll slag on someone else just to show my ass.

A stands for ASS in his case.

Jesus chill out. YOur quite the aggro one.

K.

If I must elaborate.

EBR wrote:Add your symbols and hi-hat last with one take recording over the whole thing(for that special live feel.) Trust me.

I dont aggree with your one take thing, although I do aggree with your idea of playing them live, I dont think you should suggest it as a rule, but either way... one take is not going to be enough, imo, to get everything perfectly human. Youd need quite a few unless your a practice drummer, correcting small flow problems, touching up shuffles, ect.

EBR wrote:Most dubstep tracks are maybe 4 - 7 minutes.

DONT EVER SET A TIME LIMIT. Most dubstep tracks obey 4/4, other then that, there is no time limit!! Some of the most amaizng tunes I hae are a meer 2:00 minutes or a whole wopping 11 in a few rare cases. It doesnt matter. there are so many factors, structure, bpm, ect that can play into this, its mad to set a restriction!

EBR wrote:Look at how the other tunes break down in terms of spacing. See where that ambient break is ? Ambiance is v e r y important. Your tune will only be as good as the breakdowns.

Yes! Ambiance is very importantant. But not all tunes need truly earth shattering breakdowns. SOmetimes, simple transitional patterns will do alot more on the dancefloor. Once again. Your saying this like a rule, when its not.

EBR wrote:Make sure you make it so damn loud it'll split your eardrums. give people the chance to turn their stereo down at home.

AND THIS IS WHY I TOLD HIM NOT TOO LISTEN TO YOU. THIS IS THE WORST ADVICE YOU COULD EVER GIVE SOMEONE! Proper gain structure is sooooo unbelivably vital that telling someone to crank shit through the roof is a sin in my book. Trust me, as a dj, your not to give us a chance to turn things down, give us a chance ot turn them up. This is edm. your not produceing for home hifis. Your producing for massive systems. You need clarity before volume in this realm. If you turn everything up loud, your essentially making everything fight its neighbor for space. 1+1 = 2, and this is true in volumes too. Read the mixing and mastering thread before you give SHIIIIT advice to people who legitimately want to learn the proper way of doing things.

EBR wrote:Imitate your favorite artists until you find your own style.

No. Find your onw style form day one. Draw INFLUENCE from other artists, dont ever imitate. This is art. If your imitating, you make it a trade. Your no artists if your not being creative. I cant say any more on this really, aside form thats some lame shit too say.

EBR wrote: Good luck ! - Check my dubstep mixes here -

No.

Nooone is going to check out your dubstep mixes there.

There is a mixes forum for that.

yesterday i used a new technique for building a track, I always have the same problem when it comes to finishing a track

but yesterday I sat in the bus on the way to home, and I had a couple of ideas in my head, and I just started to draw my tune

after a couple of minutes I had a whole arangement and when I was home I started to write and now my track is almost finished. It worked like a charm and was also fun to do

maybe it's worth a shot for you and other producers

dav.id wrote:yesterday i used a new technique for building a track, I always have the same problem when it comes to finishing a track

but yesterday I sat in the bus on the way to home, and I had a couple of ideas in my head, and I just started to draw my tune

after a couple of minutes I had a whole arangement and when I was home I started to write and now my track is almost finished. It worked like a charm and was also fun to do

maybe it's worth a shot for you and other producers

When you say draw, do you mean map out mentally, or are you like me, and have you invented a means of drawing edm into your own sort of musical notation gibberish?

No i mean actual drawning....it looks like a blueprint for some hi tech sky scraper in dubai:D

Works great for me