Dubstepforum.com

Do you agree with this?

Do you think that any small musical idea can be translated into a good piece of music?

Where do you draw the line for giving up on songs/ideas?

Discuss...

disagree, some ideas just go nowhere. it doesn't mean parts from that piece can't be recycled or incorporated into a new idea.

isn't that part of making an idea work though? as long as your not entirely replacing or just making a new song I mean.

I don't necessarily agree with the title btw, I just thought it would make good food for thought.

obviously i'm not a good musician because everytime i wanna start a tune and get stuck with making a sound or instrument and it just doesnt work i end up quitting the whole tune and being pissed.

but yes, the ability to translate every single sound in your head into actual data is what makes a really good musician. or maybe magician?

hasezwei wrote:but yes, the ability to translate every single sound in your head into actual data is what makes a really good musician. or maybe magician?

but is it possible to translate every single sound in you head into a good song regardless of how good the idea was in the first place?

back2onett wrote:

hasezwei wrote:but yes, the ability to translate every single sound in your head into actual data is what makes a really good musician. or maybe magician?

but is it possible to translate every single sound in you head into a good song regardless of how good the idea was in the first place?

No, of course not. Part of what makes a good musician is the ability to distinguish between a good idea and a bad one.

Does a good musician create exactly what he hears in his head or does he go on a creative journey to arrive at the end product, without knowing what he will come up with?

Capture pt wrote:Does a good musician create exactly what he hears in his head or does he go on a creative journey to arrive at the end product, without knowing what he will come up with?

I think it's a mixture of both. Too often it happens whereby you think of one idea but come up with something far better (or worse) than what you had anticipated. I think a good musician/producer however, will have the right amount of knowledge, expertise, and practise to make something to the best of his/her ability. Some people have a knack for it, other people have to train and practise hard (like myself).

back2onett wrote:isn't that part of making an idea work though? as long as your not entirely replacing or just making a new song I mean.

yes, it is. even if you are reworking it into a new song its still making the idea work. making any idea work can also mean deleting things

I honestly think that with more and more complexities in music production, the actual mixing and general sound alchemy is also like writing the music.

Thats off on a tangent, but basically you can make a simple musical idea a masterpiece through ingenuity and production skills. Imho.

Depone wrote:I honestly think that with more and more complexities in music production, the actual mixing and general sound alchemy is also like writing the music.

Thats off on a tangent, but basically you can make a simple musical idea a masterpiece through ingenuity and production skills. Imho.

Agreed. Look at kryptic minds. Nothing complex about the musicality itself, but the production - holy moly.

I'd agree a great musician can. It takes mad skills to be able to spot that little glimmer in the mud and be able to polish it up. I think I'd agree with the more general statement that any idea has to potential to be turned into something great given the right circumstances.

Interesting topic.

Depone wrote:I honestly think that with more and more complexities in music production, the actual mixing and general sound alchemy is also like writing the music.

Thats off on a tangent, but basically you can make a simple musical idea a masterpiece through ingenuity and production skills. Imho.

Read my mind man, been thinking the same thing alot recently. Alot of people rag on electronic writer's backs for not knowing deep musical theory and using pretty simple melodies and chord progressions. Yet, you have to think back to the classical composers. They had nothing like what we do, so they would put alot of thought into orchestration, melodic and harmonic ideas, and especially the use of tension through these harmonic and melodic ideas. I'm not saying electronic artists do not, and alot of them do, extensively, but with the ability to seamlessly travel through frequencies on one instrument, write rhythms through the use of LFO and other things (not exclusively of course) and all those doors that electronics have opened, we have simply found another path to expression. Am I babbling or does this make sense to others?

entirely agree.

but the space between "yeah that works" and "holy shit that's INCREDIBLE" is pretty big.

a great musician knows to either put the ok-in-this-song ideas aside for something else, or just give up on them. a merely-good one will do everything he can to fit that good idea into a song that may or may not need it.

making an OK idea work in a situation that may not warrant it is a great way to describe what it's like listening to a talented bunch of 19 year olds play jazz-- in general, they're good, but haven't found their voices yet.

Do you even need an idea to begin with? I'm sure we've all had moments where we're just banging away on the keyboard and then we find something we like, if you can build that into a good or even great song doesn't that mean that an initial idea (whether good or bad) isn't necessary or doesn't always affect the end result?

back2onett wrote:Do you even need an idea to begin with? I'm sure we've all had moments where we're just banging away on the keyboard and then we find something we like, if you can build that into a good or even great song doesn't that mean that an initial idea (whether good or bad) isn't necessary or doesn't always affect the end result?

At some point during that mucking around, an idea was certainly formed. Probably many ideas.

Hahaha, I'd like to respond to just about every post in this thread.

Dep, I disagree, well produced garbage is still garbage, it's just nice and shinny.

re the latest trend in this thread, I don't think any idea is required to start a song. Merely recognizing the potential of a piece of sound can be the beginning of a masterpiece. That's not quite the same as having an idea. The act of working with that sound and developing it, undoubtedly will involve countless ideas.

In terms of personal approaches, I do not like to be in too much control. As some of my formal knowledge, involving both music theory and production techniques grows, I'm feeling more in control, and I don't really like it. Well controlled and thought out ideas sound boring from/to me.

I prefer sounds/songs that are always on the edge of failure or that even step over the line for their ambition.

I would much rather discover something than invent it. Catch my drift on this one?

Inventions are the product of the human mind/intellect. While potentially elegant or beautiful, even at their maximum extent they're still within the bounds of the human mind.

I prefer discoveries, those things/moments/sounds that are beyond the human mind's ability to create, but are not beyond the mind's ability to recognize and capture in some way.

Of course, if you're a wide eyed wanderer, discovering great truths and beauties everywhere you go, you'll need to be quite inventive if you want to synthesize those experiences into anything tangible.

bah - well put man

@ nowaysj My point was that you can turn a simple (great idea) into a mind blowing one with the right musical mindset. I didn't say that you could turn rubbish into gold this way.

Yeah, I feel you. I read this thread while demoing some smart phones down at the mall. Think I was misreading you. Your term "simple" I think I was reading as something else.