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Anyone know any good resources for information on making complex drum patterns, been playing around with breaks and listenin to a good bit jungle and jazz and i've been considering getting a book or dvd or something on jazz drums, cause even do i can break down some beats by looping them up in a sequencer i still don't really understand how to write them or theory behind them.

Any junglists out there with any tips?

Couple of my favorite dubstep tracks incorporate these like the mad snare rolls in this classic

Tbh most drum patterns just sound complex, but really ain't. I've seen a benga documentary once where he explains how he processes drum patterns. Making a good sample selection is the first step, then you single out every sound and make cool sounding patterns with a nice flow. Add more drum hit patterns step by step until you got a nice sounding drum sequence. I use this method to make drums too, worked out pretty smooth up to now

In the tune you just posted, I honestly only hear a couple different drum hits (Kick , snare , high hats (2 or 3 different ones) , rimshot/snare (the shuffles i think you are mostly referring to) , and a cowbell? just play around with velocity can do alot.

Syncopation for the Modern Drummer.
Best book I've ever studied. For any instrument. From drum kit to piano, guitar, to LFO wobbler programming

-[2]DAY_- wrote:Syncopation for the Modern Drummer.
Best book I've ever studied. For any instrument. From drum kit to piano, guitar, to LFO wobbler programming

Just read the description on amazon and looked at a youtube video about the book, this looks like exactly what I'm looking for, thanks

No jokes about the Chapin book! The most challenging yet rewarding book on dum instruction ever made. I learned so much by programming the exersizes from that book into a sequencer and playing them at slower tempos (I suck at sight reading). It opens doors in a huge way. When the smoke clears you will be able to play your typical jazz ride pattern with one hand and anything else with the remainding 3 limbs.

practice and analysis

listen and learn ... you'll develop your own style that way

there are no secret techniques.

what like this?
Soundcloud

http://breakbeat.hattrixx.co.uk/ has a pretty straight forward tutorial on working with breaks
hell i'll do a vid on it later this week if wanted
that and remember when sampling breaks you're using a human drummer so not everything is tightly quantized

deadly habit wrote:what like this?
Soundcloud

http://breakbeat.hattrixx.co.uk/ has a pretty straight forward tutorial on working with breaks
hell i'll do a vid on it later this week if wanted
that and remember when sampling breaks you're using a human drummer so not everything is tightly quantized

wanted

deadly habit wrote:what like this?
Soundcloud

http://breakbeat.hattrixx.co.uk/ has a pretty straight forward tutorial on working with breaks
hell i'll do a vid on it later this week if wanted
that and remember when sampling breaks you're using a human drummer so not everything is tightly quantized

I've read that tutorial but I'm lookin for something with more detail about rhythm. I've played around with ghost notes and velocity, choppin up breaks and exporting the midi with them to keep the rhythmic imperfections that help give it swing and i can push out a decent break but what I'm looking for is something that explains more about how rhythms in these tracks work



I can stick'em in a sequencer and imitate them but I want to know is what makes them sound like they do.

If ya can stick a video together about sequencing and understanding syncopated jazz rhythms i'd definitely check it out, but its probably going to take more then a youtube video for what I'm after.
I appreciate your offer thou

that just comes with thinking like a drummer and natural swing/shuffle
like i said you're sampling humans not machines so you don't hard sync everything to the grid

deadly habit wrote:what like this?
Soundcloud

Badman

i mean it's easier to just see and listen to what a live drummer does then apply it to your beat programming

deadly habit wrote:

i mean it's easier to just see and listen to what a live drummer does then apply it to your beat programming

that dude has a really good sample pack, got some great hits in there but also loops. so you could bring the loops into your DAW and then see how he builds his patterns.

http://shop.hospitalrecords.com/product/nhssamp003/

imo

Dude, honestly, complex drums aren't a skill, they're a feel. I know it's a lame thing to say, but having gone from not being able to program drums at all, to being able to replicate Venetian Snares, Squarepusher and Amon Tobin with a year (if that), all I've learned is that it's just one of the many aspects of EDM production you decide to either learn or not.

Like, you were talking about jazz and shit and what I heard in regards to my early stuff is that my Amen mashing had a very jazzy feel, which makes sense since most of my favorite drummers are jazzy metal drummers or jazz drummers, but I didn't do it with any effort.

Since then, I've drastically simplified my drum programming and not consciously either, I just did what sounds right.

Also, layers. Get two different hi-hat breaks on top of each other and you'll get a pretty weird swing, using two different breaks with ghost snares on top of each other, with one lower in the mix (making you focus on the punchier snaredrum of the louder mixed break) helps too.

Complex drums are really a matter of having a feel for them and the WILL to spend time on them. When I first listened to complicated breakcore and the Squarepusher/Aphex Twin'esque stuff, I was completely obsessed with getting those drums, but like all things in production, it's just a matter of making them second nature. Is my drum programming anywhere on the level of the artists I mentioned before? Well, from an aesthetic standpoint I wouldn't say so, but from a technical standpoint, they are and it's not because I'm some drum programming genius.

I was going to say that too alot of jungle drums sound more complex than they actually are. Jazz drumming is a completely different story. It's kinda tough to analyze even because the drummers are just playing what they are feeling and it's rarely any type of pattern. Even the grooves themselves can be pretty complex like swung triplet grooves. I wish I was a good enough musician to understand half of what they do.

Getting your drums complex AND sounding natural is the hardest thing to do, personally. Having the listener feel as though a real drummer could have been thrashing away..

deadly habit wrote:what like this?
Soundcloud

http://breakbeat.hattrixx.co.uk/ has a pretty straight forward tutorial on working with breaks
hell i'll do a vid on it later this week if wanted
that and remember when sampling breaks you're using a human drummer so not everything is tightly quantized

awwwweeeessoommee

I might be alone on this, but I personally cant stand overly complex rhythms in music. They whole poly-rhythm sound just sounds like a mess to me.

Like the man above said, there doesnt feel like there is any pattern to it, so how do you get a groove going? How does it keep the listener interested if it sounds totally random?

I love the "human feel" of sampled breaks and the small imperfections that they contain that give them that feel, but when we get into poly-rhythm territory I just switch off.

The hattrix guide is the oldschool way of doing it.

Just get two breaks layers (amen think for a classic combo) chop at first snare hat and second snare and you can do virtually everything up to around 95...

Timestretch the snares for a classic jungle sound (took me ages to work that one out back in the day).

Macc will look down his nose at this tho Hes alll about chopping every single beat and rearranging the midi.

His DOA Q&A had some interesting tips before it all went off on a boring phase shift discussion, wasted opportunity imo...