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Hey guys,

I just bought Ableton live 8 after my friend let me use his Akai Apc 40. I have been using Fruity Loops for about 2 years now but was attracted to Ableton for its live DJ'ing features especially when using the APC 40. I want to completely untrain my mind from Fruityloops and teach myself how to use Ableton. The only thing I didn't seem to like about Ableton was its Piano Roll. I find it really annoying that I have to switch in and out of draw mode to be able to move around notes and change the duration of them while fruityloops let you do this with just one tool. Is there anyway to change this so that one tool does all in Ableton? I also found it slightly hard to distinguish which bar I was on when trying to make a melody. In fruityloops this was no challenge because it would serperate bars with a slightly different color background. Is there anyway to change this, to be able to customize ableton's piano roll more to your liking? Or to somehow be able to use a whole new pianoroll within Ableton?

Thanks guys, I understand this is probably a stupid question. It's crazy how noobish I feel at making music again...

Label C wrote:Hey guys,

I just bought Ableton live 8 after my friend let me use his Akai Apc 40. I have been using Fruity Loops for about 2 years now but was attracted to Ableton for its live DJ'ing features especially when using the APC 40. I want to completely untrain my mind from Fruityloops and teach myself how to use Ableton. The only thing I didn't seem to like about Ableton was its Piano Roll. I find it really annoying that I have to switch in and out of draw mode to be able to move around notes and change the duration of them while fruityloops let you do this with just one tool. Is there anyway to change this so that one tool does all in Ableton? I also found it slightly hard to distinguish which bar I was on when trying to make a melody. In fruityloops this was no challenge because it would serperate bars with a slightly different color background. Is there anyway to change this, to be able to customize ableton's piano roll more to your liking? Or to somehow be able to use a whole new pianoroll within Ableton?

Thanks guys, I understand this is probably a stupid question. It's crazy how noobish I feel at making music again...

I don't quite understand what you mean, you don't want to select draw mode if you are creating/moving/changing the length of notes :s leave it well alone you can do it all with the standard mouse click. draw mode is used for changing the velocity or drawing in automations. I fear you may be switching to it unnecessarily.

Try to double click on the grid to create new notes instead of using the pen tool.

All daws have pluses and minuses. One of fruity's plus is the p roll, one of ableton's minuses is the proll. A couple of things, you can do a lot of writing in the piano roll with just the keyboard which is nice.

In ableton there are two drawing/editing modes. Can't recall what they are called at the moment as I'm tripping for some reason, but in one of them you can more closely approximate the behavior of the fl p roll. Think it's with the right click.

Learn the keyboard shortcuts for MIDI editing, they'll save you a LOT of time.

Ctrl + B = draw mode

doubleclick = make or delete a note

hold down Ctrl and drag = move or resize without snapping to grid

hold down Alt and drag = duplicate (I might've mixed up Ctrl and Alt here)

hold down Alt (or is it Ctrl?) and drag up/down on a note = adjust velocity

Ctrl + 3 = triplet grid

Ctrl + 1/2 = expand/narrow the grid

.......etc.


With these shortcuts i find the Ableton piano roll is actually really fast.

funny when i tried fl studio again i had the same thought except about fl not ableton:

why do i have to switch tools just to select notes?

paravrais wrote:

Label C wrote:Hey guys,

I just bought Ableton live 8 after my friend let me use his Akai Apc 40. I have been using Fruity Loops for about 2 years now but was attracted to Ableton for its live DJ'ing features especially when using the APC 40. I want to completely untrain my mind from Fruityloops and teach myself how to use Ableton. The only thing I didn't seem to like about Ableton was its Piano Roll. I find it really annoying that I have to switch in and out of draw mode to be able to move around notes and change the duration of them while fruityloops let you do this with just one tool. Is there anyway to change this so that one tool does all in Ableton? I also found it slightly hard to distinguish which bar I was on when trying to make a melody. In fruityloops this was no challenge because it would serperate bars with a slightly different color background. Is there anyway to change this, to be able to customize ableton's piano roll more to your liking? Or to somehow be able to use a whole new pianoroll within Ableton?

Thanks guys, I understand this is probably a stupid question. It's crazy how noobish I feel at making music again...

I don't quite understand what you mean, you don't want to select draw mode if you are creating/moving/changing the length of notes :s leave it well alone you can do it all with the standard mouse click. draw mode is used for changing the velocity or drawing in automations. I fear you may be switching to it unnecessarily.

What exactly do you mean by I may be switching to it unnecessarily? I really need to be learning how to do live DJ sets so it seems like Ableton is the way to go. And it seems from people's opinions that Ableton can be just as productive and effective at solely producing than fruityloops.

P.S. thanks a lot for those short cuts Static

the best shortcut for midi editing is to input it yourself

the ease of capturing snapshots of performances is one of the bigger advantages of live

if you punch into a loop in arrangement mode, recording past the loop still records into the same clip, you will see the entire performance once you open the clip and take a look. then you can take the best parts out

hurlingdervish wrote:why do i have to switch tools just to select notes?

You don't.

Label C wrote:P.S. thanks a lot for those short cuts Static

NP - there's more in the manual too, those are just the ones I can remember.

More tips:

Label C wrote:

paravrais wrote:

Label C wrote:Hey guys,

I just bought Ableton live 8 after my friend let me use his Akai Apc 40. I have been using Fruity Loops for about 2 years now but was attracted to Ableton for its live DJ'ing features especially when using the APC 40. I want to completely untrain my mind from Fruityloops and teach myself how to use Ableton. The only thing I didn't seem to like about Ableton was its Piano Roll. I find it really annoying that I have to switch in and out of draw mode to be able to move around notes and change the duration of them while fruityloops let you do this with just one tool. Is there anyway to change this so that one tool does all in Ableton? I also found it slightly hard to distinguish which bar I was on when trying to make a melody. In fruityloops this was no challenge because it would serperate bars with a slightly different color background. Is there anyway to change this, to be able to customize ableton's piano roll more to your liking? Or to somehow be able to use a whole new pianoroll within Ableton?

Thanks guys, I understand this is probably a stupid question. It's crazy how noobish I feel at making music again...

I don't quite understand what you mean, you don't want to select draw mode if you are creating/moving/changing the length of notes :s leave it well alone you can do it all with the standard mouse click. draw mode is used for changing the velocity or drawing in automations. I fear you may be switching to it unnecessarily.

What exactly do you mean by I may be switching to it unnecessarily? I really need to be learning how to do live DJ sets so it seems like Ableton is the way to go. And it seems from people's opinions that Ableton can be just as productive and effective at solely producing than fruityloops.

P.S. thanks a lot for those short cuts Static

I didn't mean switching to Ableton. I meant switching to the draw tool XD I hardly EVER need to use it.

static_cast wrote:Learn the keyboard shortcuts for MIDI editing, they'll save you a LOT of time.

Ctrl + B = draw mode

doubleclick = make or delete a note

hold down Ctrl and drag = move or resize without snapping to grid

hold down Alt and drag = duplicate (I might've mixed up Ctrl and Alt here)

hold down Alt (or is it Ctrl?) and drag up/down on a note = adjust velocity

Ctrl + 3 = triplet grid

Ctrl + 1/2 = expand/narrow the grid

.......etc.


With these shortcuts i find the Ableton piano roll is actually really fast.

can't believe i've been using ableton for like 8 or 9 years and am still learning shit..
these'll help a lil!

paravrais wrote:

Label C wrote:

paravrais wrote:

Label C wrote:Hey guys,

I just bought Ableton live 8 after my friend let me use his Akai Apc 40. I have been using Fruity Loops for about 2 years now but was attracted to Ableton for its live DJ'ing features especially when using the APC 40. I want to completely untrain my mind from Fruityloops and teach myself how to use Ableton. The only thing I didn't seem to like about Ableton was its Piano Roll. I find it really annoying that I have to switch in and out of draw mode to be able to move around notes and change the duration of them while fruityloops let you do this with just one tool. Is there anyway to change this so that one tool does all in Ableton? I also found it slightly hard to distinguish which bar I was on when trying to make a melody. In fruityloops this was no challenge because it would serperate bars with a slightly different color background. Is there anyway to change this, to be able to customize ableton's piano roll more to your liking? Or to somehow be able to use a whole new pianoroll within Ableton?

Thanks guys, I understand this is probably a stupid question. It's crazy how noobish I feel at making music again...

I don't quite understand what you mean, you don't want to select draw mode if you are creating/moving/changing the length of notes :s leave it well alone you can do it all with the standard mouse click. draw mode is used for changing the velocity or drawing in automations. I fear you may be switching to it unnecessarily.

What exactly do you mean by I may be switching to it unnecessarily? I really need to be learning how to do live DJ sets so it seems like Ableton is the way to go. And it seems from people's opinions that Ableton can be just as productive and effective at solely producing than fruityloops.

P.S. thanks a lot for those short cuts Static

I didn't mean switching to Ableton. I meant switching to the draw tool XD I hardly EVER need to use it.

yeah, for drawing in and editing midi notes it's easier to leave the draw tool disabled and just click it in. for quickly drawing in automation/envelopes the draw mode is nice.

paravrais wrote:

Label C wrote:

paravrais wrote:

Label C wrote:Hey guys,

I just bought Ableton live 8 after my friend let me use his Akai Apc 40. I have been using Fruity Loops for about 2 years now but was attracted to Ableton for its live DJ'ing features especially when using the APC 40. I want to completely untrain my mind from Fruityloops and teach myself how to use Ableton. The only thing I didn't seem to like about Ableton was its Piano Roll. I find it really annoying that I have to switch in and out of draw mode to be able to move around notes and change the duration of them while fruityloops let you do this with just one tool. Is there anyway to change this so that one tool does all in Ableton? I also found it slightly hard to distinguish which bar I was on when trying to make a melody. In fruityloops this was no challenge because it would serperate bars with a slightly different color background. Is there anyway to change this, to be able to customize ableton's piano roll more to your liking? Or to somehow be able to use a whole new pianoroll within Ableton?

Thanks guys, I understand this is probably a stupid question. It's crazy how noobish I feel at making music again...

I don't quite understand what you mean, you don't want to select draw mode if you are creating/moving/changing the length of notes :s leave it well alone you can do it all with the standard mouse click. draw mode is used for changing the velocity or drawing in automations. I fear you may be switching to it unnecessarily.

What exactly do you mean by I may be switching to it unnecessarily? I really need to be learning how to do live DJ sets so it seems like Ableton is the way to go. And it seems from people's opinions that Ableton can be just as productive and effective at solely producing than fruityloops.

P.S. thanks a lot for those short cuts Static

I didn't mean switching to Ableton. I meant switching to the draw tool XD I hardly EVER need to use it.

Haha silly me. For a sec there, I thought u were about to give me a great reason why I shoulda stayed with FL which really would have bummed me out cause ableton wasnt exactly cheap for me

Thank you guys a lot for ur input. I never knew double clicking added a note which basically solves my problem from having to switch in and out of draw mode. Love this forum!!!!

believe that was something of a revelation to me too

wayoftheworld wrote:
yeah, for drawing in and editing midi notes it's easier to leave the draw tool disabled and just click it in. for quickly drawing in automation/envelopes the draw mode is nice.

Depends on your grid size though doesn't it. If your piano roll grid size is 1/8 and you want to draw in a note that's 1/4 bars long you're going to have to expand it. But I agree that you can just click in aside from this additional thing. Sorry pedantry.

Gotta agree the Piano Roll in Ableton is pretty crap especially as before I was using Cubase but I've got use to it.

promo wrote:Gotta agree the Piano Roll in Ableton is pretty crap especially as before I was using Cubase but I've got use to it.

I absolutely hate the Cubase piano roll. Who the fuck thought it'd be a good idea to put a drop shadow behind every note? How are you meant to work out where it even is?

jaydot wrote:

wayoftheworld wrote:
yeah, for drawing in and editing midi notes it's easier to leave the draw tool disabled and just click it in. for quickly drawing in automation/envelopes the draw mode is nice.

Depends on your grid size though doesn't it. If your piano roll grid size is 1/8 and you want to draw in a note that's 1/4 bars long you're going to have to expand it. But I agree that you can just click in aside from this additional thing. Sorry pedantry.

tbh its never an issue, just gotta use some of those shortcuts static cast listed! command + drag note to resize without snap to grid, and command + 1/2 to toggle grid size make it a breeze.