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For some weird reason in the track I'm working on, it sounds more "in tune" that the note I'm playing on this particular midrange bass sound is a semitone lower than the sub (and yes I checked the pitch of the oscillators and everything). Just find it kinda weird and was wondering if anyone else noticed this??

CMACD wrote:For some weird reason in the track I'm working on, it sounds more "in tune" that the note I'm playing on this particular midrange bass sound is a semitone lower than the sub (and yes I checked the pitch of the oscillators and everything). Just find it kinda weird and was wondering if anyone else noticed this??

I don't have a technical answer for you - but "pitch" inadvertedly gets affected (i don't think it's the actual pitch, but our ears make it out like it is) just by playing with cutoff and resonance - considering that formant filters are a combination of these two, I would not be surprised if that's the case.

Best thing is to do what sounds "right". If it doesn't sound right, it probably isn't.

amphibian wrote:

CMACD wrote:For some weird reason in the track I'm working on, it sounds more "in tune" that the note I'm playing on this particular midrange bass sound is a semitone lower than the sub (and yes I checked the pitch of the oscillators and everything). Just find it kinda weird and was wondering if anyone else noticed this??

I don't have a technical answer for you - but "pitch" inadvertedly gets affected (i don't think it's the actual pitch, but our ears make it out like it is) just by playing with cutoff and resonance - considering that formant filters are a combination of these two, I would not be surprised if that's the case.

sorry, but that's completely wrong

pitch is not affected by filter cutoff/resonance... our ears don't make it out like pitch either. filters just add/remove/attenuate/accentuate certain harmonics. they don't change the pitch

Phigure wrote:

amphibian wrote:

CMACD wrote:For some weird reason in the track I'm working on, it sounds more "in tune" that the note I'm playing on this particular midrange bass sound is a semitone lower than the sub (and yes I checked the pitch of the oscillators and everything). Just find it kinda weird and was wondering if anyone else noticed this??

I don't have a technical answer for you - but "pitch" inadvertedly gets affected (i don't think it's the actual pitch, but our ears make it out like it is) just by playing with cutoff and resonance - considering that formant filters are a combination of these two, I would not be surprised if that's the case.

sorry, but that's completely wrong

pitch is not affected by filter cutoff/resonance... our ears don't make it out like pitch either. filters just add/remove/attenuate/accentuate certain harmonics. they don't change the pitch

Did you read my entire post? I said that it doesn't affect pitch, but sometimes it sounds like it does due to how the filters change the sound.

amphibian wrote:

Phigure wrote:

amphibian wrote:

CMACD wrote:For some weird reason in the track I'm working on, it sounds more "in tune" that the note I'm playing on this particular midrange bass sound is a semitone lower than the sub (and yes I checked the pitch of the oscillators and everything). Just find it kinda weird and was wondering if anyone else noticed this??

I don't have a technical answer for you - but "pitch" inadvertedly gets affected (i don't think it's the actual pitch, but our ears make it out like it is) just by playing with cutoff and resonance - considering that formant filters are a combination of these two, I would not be surprised if that's the case.

sorry, but that's completely wrong

pitch is not affected by filter cutoff/resonance... our ears don't make it out like pitch either. filters just add/remove/attenuate/accentuate certain harmonics. they don't change the pitch

Did you read my entire post? I said that it doesn't affect pitch, but sometimes it sounds like it does due to how the filters change the sound.

Did you read mine? Because I said that it doesn't sound like pitch changing either. Pitch is the fundamental frequency of a sound, and filters will not change that, and won't make it sound like it changes either. I'm sorry, but you just don't really know what you're saying

CMACD wrote:For some weird reason in the track I'm working on, it sounds more "in tune" that the note I'm playing on this particular midrange bass sound is a semitone lower than the sub (and yes I checked the pitch of the oscillators and everything). Just find it kinda weird and was wondering if anyone else noticed this??

yeah dude I notice my sub sounds out of tune by about half a step and I have no idea why

With distortion lots of new harmonic content can be generated which, along with formant filtering that's emphasizing a certain range, can sound like it has a different or uncertain pitch. Just be careful with how much you're affecting the sound if you want it to retain some of its fidelity, and if necessary retune it so it sounds on pitch.

Phigure wrote:

amphibian wrote:

Phigure wrote:

amphibian wrote:

CMACD wrote:For some weird reason in the track I'm working on, it sounds more "in tune" that the note I'm playing on this particular midrange bass sound is a semitone lower than the sub (and yes I checked the pitch of the oscillators and everything). Just find it kinda weird and was wondering if anyone else noticed this??

I don't have a technical answer for you - but "pitch" inadvertedly gets affected (i don't think it's the actual pitch, but our ears make it out like it is) just by playing with cutoff and resonance - considering that formant filters are a combination of these two, I would not be surprised if that's the case.

sorry, but that's completely wrong

pitch is not affected by filter cutoff/resonance... our ears don't make it out like pitch either. filters just add/remove/attenuate/accentuate certain harmonics. they don't change the pitch

Did you read my entire post? I said that it doesn't affect pitch, but sometimes it sounds like it does due to how the filters change the sound.

Did you read mine? Because I said that it doesn't sound like pitch changing either. Pitch is the fundamental frequency of a sound, and filters will not change that, and won't make it sound like it changes either. I'm sorry, but you just don't really know what you're saying

yeah he does.. and now you look quite silly to anybody who has actually played around with a lowpass filter enough to witness this phenomenon.

thanks guys - thought maybe my ears weren't quite right from the reaction I was getting. hehe

narcissus wrote:

Phigure wrote:

amphibian wrote:

Phigure wrote:

amphibian wrote:
I don't have a technical answer for you - but "pitch" inadvertedly gets affected (i don't think it's the actual pitch, but our ears make it out like it is) just by playing with cutoff and resonance - considering that formant filters are a combination of these two, I would not be surprised if that's the case.

sorry, but that's completely wrong

pitch is not affected by filter cutoff/resonance... our ears don't make it out like pitch either. filters just add/remove/attenuate/accentuate certain harmonics. they don't change the pitch

Did you read my entire post? I said that it doesn't affect pitch, but sometimes it sounds like it does due to how the filters change the sound.

Did you read mine? Because I said that it doesn't sound like pitch changing either. Pitch is the fundamental frequency of a sound, and filters will not change that, and won't make it sound like it changes either. I'm sorry, but you just don't really know what you're saying

yeah he does.. and now you look quite silly to anybody who has actually played around with a lowpass filter enough to witness this phenomenon.

Errrrr no. A lowpass filter will not, can not, and does not change the fundamental frequency of a sound

Phigure - play around with the automation on a low-passed synth (so that it's only a few degrees opening/closing), and you get what sounds like a very subtle pitch change. Introduce resonance automation as well and it really starts doing interesting things, which I can't explain as the math is just too damn complicated for me

amphibian wrote:Phigure - play around with the automation on a low-passed synth (so that it's only a few degrees opening/closing), and you get what sounds like a very subtle pitch change. Introduce resonance automation as well and it really starts doing interesting things, which I can't explain as the math is just too damn complicated for me

No. It's not pitch change, and it doesn't sound like pitch change. It seems you don't even have a basic understand of what a filter does, nor what constitutes pitch.

Phigure wrote:

amphibian wrote:Phigure - play around with the automation on a low-passed synth (so that it's only a few degrees opening/closing), and you get what sounds like a very subtle pitch change. Introduce resonance automation as well and it really starts doing interesting things, which I can't explain as the math is just too damn complicated for me

No. It's not pitch change, and it doesn't sound like pitch change. It seems you don't even have a basic understand of what a filter does, nor what constitutes pitch.

/sigh

For the sake of simplicity, let's say we've got the signal pictured below

the fundamental frequency would be 2 Hz, with 4, 8, and 16 Hz being harmonics. For example, let's say that 2 Hz is a note called X, 4 Hz is X up one octave, 8 Hz is also X (up another octave), and 16 Hz is yet again also X (up another octave).

A lowpass filter, will simply decrease the amplitude of any frequencies above the cutoff frequency, sloping downwards at different angles depending on the filter strength. What resonance does is introduce a peak just before the cutoff frequency, amplifying any frequencies in that range. So when you change the cutoff of a filter, you're changing the location of the resonance, which means that different frequencies are being accentuated. This doesn't change the note though, because the large majority of frequencies will be harmonics of the fundamental.




(it's crude, I know)

here's a better picture I found of a resonant filter

Phigure - thanks heaps for that, you've certainly explained something that I wasn't aware of previously. I guess my ears still need training, as it certainly sounds like the pitch being altered to me.

amphibian wrote:Phigure - thanks heaps for that, you've certainly explained something that I wasn't aware of previously. I guess my ears still need training, as it certainly sounds like the pitch being altered to me.

No worries, sorry to have been so blunt

Phigure wrote:

amphibian wrote:Phigure - thanks heaps for that, you've certainly explained something that I wasn't aware of previously. I guess my ears still need training, as it certainly sounds like the pitch being altered to me.

No worries, sorry to have been so blunt

*raises the white flag*

if you accentuate a harmonic enough with a resonant filter the sound will "sound" will have a strong overtone cutoff frequency.
if this freq is out of key it'll sound out of key.
for all intents and purposes it introduces a new "pitch".
despite the fundamental not changing...

sully.harmitage wrote:if you accentuate a harmonic enough with a resonant filter the sound will "sound" will have a strong overtone cutoff frequency.
if this freq is out of key it'll sound out of key.
for all intents and purposes it introduces a new "pitch".
despite the fundamental not changing...

Seconded, amphibian's posts were pretty valid even if he was lacking some technical knowledge. Once a resonant frequency starts to become loud enough then the fundamental can become hard to hear so the resonant frequency becomes perceived as the fundamental frequency.

Also if you're using hp filters then the fundamental might get filtered out altogether.

heavy processing can quite easily alter the perceived pitch of a sound. especially when dealing with distortion, banpass and highpass filters, and more esoteric things such as formant filters and bitcrushing.

ive experienced with this myself, where a kinda squelchy modulating noisia-esque sort of bassline i made sounded most in tune with a sub bass playing six semitones different to it.

some filters will compensate for level increases when the resonance goes up by bringing the volume down which could quite easily change the predominant frequency to the cutoff rather than the fundamental. also if your filter self oscillates that will mess up the tuning.

amphibian was right though - do what sounds right. numbers and stuff are all great, but you don't hear those when you play the track do you?