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so i guess certain songs need to be released as unknown on white labels because they contain copyrighted material (though i don't see how making the artist "unknown" helps much)...but beyond that...whats the point of these white label promos and such?

i mean...do people really buy the white label promo's so that they can have the song a month earlier rather than waiting and getting the regular release with album art?

also...as for the unknown artist white labels...how is it that the company pressing and distributing the songs with copyrighted material don't get sued? who are these white label labels?

Everyone loves a White Label.....

Some of the biggest tunes have been on White Label...

Coki - Ganster For Life
Mala - Alicia
Mala - In Love
Hijak - Tears

I dont think these artist take claim for the production (Because of copyrights) but as its absolutly obvious who it is and word gets out it kinf of makes it "Official" in who produced it.

And as for the white labels a few months befor the release!
This is mainly the label getting abit of hype on the tune.. eg. sticking a few promos in a certain shop and seeing the reaction you can get from customers and guaging feedback from the stores!

Alot of tunes i got are promo copies!
It kind of makes that tune a little bit more special.

Imagine if you had the dmZ ep by Mala on White label a few months befor release!

white labels and promos have been going for over 20 yrs man...they're just part of record culture. DJ's have always thrived off having big new tunes before other DJ's, therefore promos have always been popular. and white labels just allow ppl to release music that otherwise wouldnt be released due to copyright infringement so you shouldn't look negatively on these things, you should be happy that more music can be released and made available to people that otherwise wouldnt be.

tylerdwhite wrote:so i guess certain songs need to be released as unknown on white labels because they contain copyrighted material

Correct

tylerdwhite wrote: (though i don't see how making the artist "unknown" helps much)

It's just for legal reasons, if the producers name is officially tied to the release then the original artist could take legal action. Or do you mean unknown referring to the original artist it has been sampled from? If so then I guess it's to not bring unwanted attention.

tylerdwhite wrote: ...but beyond that...whats the point of these white label promos and such?

It is just to get a general idea for record labels to see how well the record will sell and how many copies of the full release they should press

tylerdwhite wrote: i mean...do people really buy the white label promo's so that they can have the song a month earlier rather than waiting and getting the regular release with album art?

Of course, if you dj on a regular basis then your going to want the newest tracks as soon as possible

tylerdwhite wrote: also...as for the unknown artist white labels...how is it that the company pressing and distributing the songs with copyrighted material don't get sued? who are these white label labels?

I think anyone can get anything pressed, it's not down to the pressing plant to go through details of copyright, Not too sure about the distributor

tylerdwhite wrote:so i guess certain songs need to be released as unknown on white labels because they contain copyrighted material (though i don't see how making the artist "unknown" helps much)...but beyond that...whats the point of these white label promos and such?

i mean...do people really buy the white label promo's so that they can have the song a month earlier rather than waiting and getting the regular release with album art?

also...as for the unknown artist white labels...how is it that the company pressing and distributing the songs with copyrighted material don't get sued? who are these white label labels?

White labels give a Dj / fan the chance to have a tune weeks before the official release. That's the point. You get it before anyone else. The whites are also collectible in some cases.

I buy white labels all the time, because sometimes I miss the official release. I could care less if its the official release or white label. As long as the pressing is good, I don't care if the sticker is pretty or not.

As for people getting taken to court for making a white label... *shrug* You don't hear about it because its all shrouded in mystery... Who knows ?

The white labels you see in shops as a small run of promo's is more then likely just a run of test presses given to the labels to check out the quality.. If the quality is up to par, then they get sold. If not, back to the pressing plant.

But yes, in general, white labels are a "mystery" as to who has pressed them up, rather then who created the tracks.

thanks for the replies...valid points all around.

the only thing i still don't really get is how the copyright owners don't have the ability/desire to sue whoever is pressing the records and selling them to shops...i mean...SOMEONE is making money off em...

I suppose if there's nobody mentioned on the vinyl then there's nobody to file a claim against.

Would it be the case that the white label would be impossible to trace back to the cutting house then?

Just out of interest does anyone know what the minimum amount of TP's you could get cut? Are we talking hundreds here or what?

venuq wrote:I suppose if there's nobody mentioned on the vinyl then there's nobody to file a claim against.

Would it be the case that the white label would be impossible to trace back to the cutting house then?

Just out of interest does anyone know what the minimum amount of TP's you could get cut? Are we talking hundreds here or what?

Most runs of 500, would get 10-50 Tp's, but more then likely, these would be paid for.

Well, there are essentially three types of white label releases.

The first are test press copies. Labels would get tracks(s) cut to vinyl and the manufacturing plant would run off some test presses - usually a short run of 5 to 10 or so - to check the mastering, quality of the cut etc etc. This is done well in advance of the release date, so if the label wanted to get the music out to key DJ's in the scene they'd give them out so only a couple guys had them. Think of these as the A* list DJ's (in the eyes of the label)

Concerning test presses it's important to note that the quality of the pressings get much, much better as the stamping machine warms up. Therefore the quality of the test press runs should be taken with a little pinch of salt.

Once a label is happy with the test presses they'll need to make promo copies to send out to a wider database of DJ's - the A and B list DJ's. So they get the plant to run off several hundred copies. Some labels have promo labels for the centre of the vinyl, some just use rubber stamps or a sharpie, others go for full on sleeves and more. Most go for the plain white label in a plain white bag because it's cheap and let's the DJ write on the label and sleeve.

The third kind is for bootleg releases - where the artist is infringing copyright and so leaves the release devoid of any information so the MCPS etc can't trace them for payment!

EBR wrote:I could care less

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om7O0MFkmpw

I heard they also came about because big DJs in the past didn't want other DJs to see what that amazing new song they were playing was and steal it.

I'm confused about full artwork promos though. What's the point in calling them a promo at all?

Alty wrote:I'm confused about full artwork promos though. What's the point in calling them a promo at all?

me too...for instance Dub Police's promo's always look exactly like the regular releases...

is there usually a difference in the weight of the vinyl or quality of the pressing (in particular for a full color promo like a DP one)? i know someone above metioning that a press gets better the more pressings it does so I guess this theory may hold some weight, though i've never bought both a promo and a regular release of the same tracks so I don't know.

historically i have stayed away from grabbing promo's (aside from the occasional can't wait situation) because:

1. i don't play out so i don't necessarily need to get the new songs super fast
2. I've always kind of assumed that promo's were a lower quality pressing/lighter weight vinyl
3. I like album art.

Alty wrote:I heard they also came about because big DJs in the past didn't want other DJs to see what that amazing new song they were playing was and steal it.

I'm confused about full artwork promos though. What's the point in calling them a promo at all?

ehh in drum and bass some people would purposely buy white labels to mask their shit but that kinda ended with the digital age and advanced trainspotterism.

white label bootleg and white label promo are two different beasts.

the rest has been covered in this thread

nice. thanks for diggin up those vids.

thanks to all for the informative, intelligent replies.

tylerdwhite wrote:thanks for the replies...valid points all around.

the only thing i still don't really get is how the copyright owners don't have the ability/desire to sue whoever is pressing the records and selling them to shops...i mean...SOMEONE is making money off em...

well....500 copies, only being sold through independent shops in one country?
they're gone before a major label/publisher's legal department knows about it.

same reason people can get away with uncleared samples - small artists won't have a legal team, major labels legal teams are busy getting 90% of the royalties for records that actually made a lot of money. No-one gives enough of a fcuk about 500 x £6.99 - the cost of the pressing in the first place.

Also - it's kinda in the copyright owners interests to let this underground white label/bootleg industry exist - to an extent at least - because once in a while a record will get on a TV advert with an uncleared sample or something.... at which point the copyright owner will suddenly be far more interested and often licence the record with menaces, or at least make sure they get a decent deal on the record without going to court - then the advert makes the record sell 100,000 - and the copyright owner/publisher make a whole bunch of money for doing very little.

still wish lawyers hadn't shut down the trillbass remix of eastern jam from getting pressed