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I get altering the velocity (volume?) of each hit and having them non-quantized to the grid (though I am using Renoise and therefore use the delay command).

But it's still not sounding realistic.

I use two different kick drums that alternate each other, sampled from like a second or half a second of kick drum hits in '43% Burnt' by the Dillinger Escape Plan. I'm guessing I will need kick drum samples with more air and would probably need about 8 to get a more realistic sound?

well sampling two kicks that are played in quick succession like that should be the simplest way to achieving that effect

id guess that if you are sampling kicks from a metal band they are gonna be rather machine-gun like anyway as that seems to be the general style (although i dunno about dillinger escape plan - in fact im not sure ive even heard any of their music)

velocity and quantize variation usually works for me to be honest - having the second kick slightly quieter and slightly late would be a good start. maybe even some very subtle filtering of the second kick to make it a little more muffled.

swing templates...

acoustic drum sounds

also starting the roll on the "2" or the "3" as opposed to the "1"

gravity wrote:(although i dunno about dillinger escape plan - in fact im not sure ive even heard any of their music)

man, "calculating infinity" is a serious piece of work.

Genevieve wrote:I get altering the velocity (volume?) of each hit and having them non-quantized to the grid (though I am using Renoise and therefore use the delay command).

But it's still not sounding realistic.

I use two different kick drums that alternate each other, sampled from like a second or half a second of kick drum hits in '43% Burnt' by the Dillinger Escape Plan. I'm guessing I will need kick drum samples with more air and would probably need about 8 to get a more realistic sound?

No! More doesn't = better..

paravrais wrote:

Genevieve wrote:I get altering the velocity (volume?) of each hit and having them non-quantized to the grid (though I am using Renoise and therefore use the delay command).

But it's still not sounding realistic.

I use two different kick drums that alternate each other, sampled from like a second or half a second of kick drum hits in '43% Burnt' by the Dillinger Escape Plan. I'm guessing I will need kick drum samples with more air and would probably need about 8 to get a more realistic sound?

No! More doesn't = better..

I thought that more variety in sound would make it sound more like various kick drum hits. I'd basically just try to sample 8 consecutive kicks from the same source and rearrange them at random. Not sure if I can find that, though. Even though I have lots of metal in my collection.

metal drums tend to be triggered, therefore sound highly inorganic.

if you must sample find kicks that are acoustic ie early cryptopsy.

hope this helps

bl0rg wrote:metal drums tend to be triggered, therefore sound highly inorganic.

if you must sample find kicks that are acoustic ie early cryptopsy.

hope this helps

Yeah, I've gone through all of None So Vile not long ago for some samples, will probably check Blasphemy Made Flesh in a second.... Both are some of my favorite records for a long time now but I don't remember them having samples I could use for this purpose.

I'm mostly going for an organic, black metal vibe with the drums.

gravity wrote: (although i dunno about dillinger escape plan - in fact im not sure ive even heard any of their music)

they are nuts, remember seeing them open the main stage at leeds a fair few years ago, was funny as fuck. great place to get your samples from

as for the question, just clever non-quantised placing and volume change *should* be enough to make it sound right.

symmetricalsounds wrote:

gravity wrote: (although i dunno about dillinger escape plan - in fact im not sure ive even heard any of their music)

they are nuts, remember seeing them open the main stage at leeds a fair few years ago, was funny as fuck. great place to get your samples from

as for the question, just clever non-quantised placing and volume change *should* be enough to make it sound right.

all above is so true.
if your still having issues it would more likely be the kick sample you are using

also automating the envelopes on the samples or setting up the same kicks with different envelope settings.

there's some metal band called morbid angel who have a track called "drum check" or so. you could sample that, pure metal drum madness.
never been a fan of metal drums tho, as much as i like the occasional anaal nathrakh song it always bugs me that the kickdrum is actually more like a hi-hat as the guitars are eating away all the bass. not to speak of the nigh inaubible bass, must suck to be a metal bassist when all your frequency range is already reserved for the guitars.

that's why i'm more into hardcore-influenced stuff, the drumwork sounds more like breakbeats and less like speedcore-gabba

edit: it's on the album "heretic"

Velocity and a filter to shape the top end to sound different.

not that ive tried to program double kicks like this, what sort of pattern are you doing? the common thing to think is that you'd have something like...

Beats - 1 2 3 4
Kicks 1-2-3-4 2-2-3-4 3-2-3-4 4-2-3-4

but im sure real drummers do triplets, ??

like...

Beats - 1 2 3 4
Kicks 1-2-3 2-2-3 3-2-3 4-2-3

get me?

toontrack drumkit from hell is by tomas haake from meshuggah, and you should have no problem laying down double bass riddims with that

I always boost some of the high end on my kicks to make them sound like you've recorded it through a decent set of overheads

If you're using MIDI, assign decay to velocity as well as volume. The less hard a bass drum is hit, the less the bass drum will tend to resonate. A shorter decay will help achieve that effect.

If you are using Ableton, is to find a double bass drum sample and extract the groove from it. Up the velocity parameter in your groove pool and assign the groove to your own drum loop. Hit the commit button in the clip window to commit the groove and this will assign volume automation to your clip. From there, make final tweaks to taste. A bit of room reverb helps as well.

most metal productions go for the exact opposite of "natural" when it comes to kicks. triggering and quantizing.

Sharmaji wrote:most metal productions go for the exact opposite of "natural" when it comes to kicks. triggering and quantizing.

dunno if they're still up but somewhere on the grid full clip audio posted some rock drums he recorded, which could be useful

Pretty sure Dillinger's drummer doesn't trigger, since they go from blastbeats to jazz-ish stuff in a snap.

A typical double kick technique is to basically do a double-stroke roll with your feet (RRLL) vs single (RLRL), so try doing the same sample twice, then the other twice.

Real metal doesn't need bass! Pig Destroyer ftw