Dubstepforum.com

The general sound of Dubstep as far I can tell (I'm fairly new to Dubstep, and this forum) is fairly open minded and experimental. Its not often you here two indistinguishably similar tracks mixed together on mixes or at the club (I've only been to two Dubstep nights, Mala in Auckland and Skream who lost his passport in Australia and didn't turn up) as opposed to Drum and Bass in general. I still love my drum and bass, just not much of the current crop so I am not shitting on Drum and Bass. I like DnB and I like Dubstep.

What I find interesting is this. Only a few short years ago Concord Dawn, Andy C, Pendulum and a few others introduced fresh sounds to DnB which then became to my ears a cookie cutter blueprint for many other wannabes who followed the leaders. Now look where DnB has ended up, a bit weaker, a bit more homogenous and a bit played out. This is a far cry from the early days of Drum and Bass/Jungle where individual expression was far more evident to the casual listener than it is at present. Who's to say that Dubstep isn't doomed to blindly follow this path too by not staying fresh?

The key to keeping a sound fresh is fresh sounds...if you get my drift. So in the interest of starting a heated debate, How fresh can a sound be before it becomes fu.kin wac? How warped can a persons individual expression of dubstep be before the Dubstep Police fire a teargas cannister through the window to flush the perps out for a good beating? What is right for Dubstep? What is wrong? What samples are generally acceptable, or perhaps which ones are not? Would a Dubstep version of 'Running with the Devil' by Van Halen be acceptable if tastefully executed? Would a 2 minute Steve Vai style solo in the middle of a track be acceptable? Am I encouraged to make reggae infused Dubstep even though I listened to Cal Punk and the Foo Fighters only a few short years ago and am more informed by my teenage love of Punk than 70's King Tubby?

How far out of the vein does a sound really have to be before it isn't Dubstep any more? Are there any limits, Really?

I have a tasty Tears for Fears sample I'm aching to use and have a three six mafia a cappella thats dying for a makeover.

Also....Is it wrong to tell someone that they stink an will forever stink with no hope of not stinking and should give up rather than subjecting you to another uninspired, halfbaked, wobbly, droning stinker that sounds exactly like the last three wobbly droning stinkers they were so excited about having everyone hear in the last month? Sort of like quality control, or would you just be flamed and labelled a jealous hateful troll?
"At least I'm making tunes man, you just hate on my stuff coz your jealous that I get things done!" (But what if the tracks just plain old suck though? Who will be the bearer of bad news?)

End of Rambling Post

Very insightful post.. good read.













...Though i have fuck all to contribute.

I think the limits of dubstep are pretty out there. The dubstep scene is quite varied, as long as it sounds good i think most of the scene will embrace new stuff.

Franky some dubstep is sounding pretty stale, but thats cos people are just rinsing the same shit, 140bpm half time with some reverb on the beat and some fucking flutes and some wobble bass.... but alot of producers are bringin new shit all the time. Vex'D sticks in my mind, alot of their stuff is unique and quite fresh.

I think the wub wub bass might be abused a little bit, but if you compare dubstep to dub, and not dnb, alot of dub sounds similar but it is still fantastic. They use the same bass tones, sirens and drum fills in dub alot but it doesn't get boring and people are still making it 35 years down the line.

I'm not sure why people compare dubstep to dnb so much, I reckon its more dub than dnb.

I reckon jump up dnb got boring (alot of the dark shit is still fresh if you ask me) because there's only so much you can do with it.
At 140bpm you can fit alot more weird shit into a dubstep track, so I think dubstep will have a longer shelf life than dnb.

Plus, dnb is primarily dance music, so every single tune is orientated at the floor, whereas dubstep is also good for sitting at home and smoking bongs to, just like dub.

Who knows, its interesting though. I think dubstep producers are definately pushing the boundaries more than dnb producers though.

I don't think I'm comparing the two. But as has been pointed out before there are many people that have entered the Dubstep room on a jaded DnB night to stay in a metaphorical and real sense.

They aren't they same thing. But they do share parallels, DnB was spawned in the gritty urban landscape as a futuristic Techno derivative infused with Reggae and Funk using many Dub production techniques and it must be recognised that it was originated primarily by black Junglists many of which have roots in the Carribean, home of reggae and calypso sounds.

Dubstep was recently spawned from darker garage sounds (derived in part from jungle) infused with Dub and reggae and using many of the Dub style techniques pioneered in the seventies in the Carribean. It has many of the same futuristic aesthetics of DnB including deep sub bass, extensive use of samples and electronic synth sounds all of which have there roots in Techno. It was also born in the gritty urban landscape from black musicians.

Thats where the similarities and comparisons are drawn by many people, its not too hard to see. Perhaps it could be said that DnB is a gateway music for Dubstep?

Isn't Timo Maas responsible for Wub Wub bass?

if you are fairly new it may sound all similar to you. i've only been into this stuff just over a year, but its not hard to find old mixes/radio shows and see how the sound has changed already. compare dubstep allstars 2 to say a current n-type show. theres lots of stuff being currently made, from minimal, to real ravey, to 2-steppy, to deep, to real noisey, to real dark, to real fluffy, to real bouncy. its all good, if you inspirations are good, and you execute your new expression well, there will be people that dig it. van halen isnt good, so no it would work for me. i think you'd be surprised how many people around started off many years ago with punk rock. myself included. keep it open, keep it honest, and keep it fresh.

kyle

oh also, one more thing about the dnb stagnating comparison. i think this culture in general, (the independent/subversive music/life culture) has learned a lot from the past, and will learn a thing or two from what we're doing now. i expect a lot of kids will get involved for the wrong reasons, and may end up attempting the same thing as in dnb, so its not wrong to criticize or discuss, but dont be a dick about it.

I think crowds reactions to 2D only goes to show people are always looking for something new and different!

Oh, and perfect point there NoSpin "dont be a dick about it". Thats about the long and short of it imo!

I've sortof got a running idea of producing a very sexy spin on the genre, meant to inspire erotic feelings in its listener.

Good questions asked here. I think samples have no limits. Dubstep is really only a very loosely defined brokenbeat downtempo genre which has a very open and willing dancefloor and DJ culture. Thank god. It's a dream come true.

I have no immediate plans to take up acerbic Dubstep criticism as a hobby, don't worry.

I think I would rather avoid giving comment on bad/boring tracks than say anything at all; If I ignore it maybe it will go away. I'm not in the habit of giving feint praise though. So if someone goes

Bump

Bump

BUMP!

I think I would have to tell them their efforts did not yield the desired result and that they should go back to the lab to try again in a direct and polite manner.

IMO dubstep is a scene not a genre, so there's no strict rules about if it has sound X or it doesn't have sound Y then it can't be dubstep. It's more about whether it'll work well with other dubstep tunes and work in a dubstep club to a dubstep audience. Maybe some sort of heavy bass is 'neccessary', but I think even that has more to do with what the audience will respond to than with fitting into the rules to be considered a dubstep tune.

That said, if you can make a kazoo sound good on a dubstep tune I'll be impressed.

Whoa...

I wonder why anyone would place limits on a well of endless opportunity like electronic dance muzik??
For the sake of arguement lets just call it "Techno".
I think that everyone associates that term with something different but, in reality it is short for technology which is whut 90% the music is made with other than samples & whutnot. With all this new & old technology being used, it's in the hands of producers to keep making good music on "the cutting edge" as far as sound concepts, outside the box approaches and Polyphony.
Unfortunately there ARE alot of labels/producers that for some reason pay money to put out tired & formulaic tracks on vinyl and this baffles me, whats more annoying is the djs who "choose" boring tracks to play. It's like they're too lazy to really dig in the crates.
IMHO the music really is a drug and in order to "stay high" we just need to keep making new strains that defy comprehension and break the mold of "genre-lization". Just my 2 cents.

DownNgoinG wrote: IMHO the music really is a drug and in order to "stay high" we just need to keep making new strains that defy comprehension and break the mold of "genre-lization". Just my 2 cents.

interesting way to put it. but i do hate when people refer to all electronic dance music as techno... couldnt be farther off in most cases if you ask me..

NoSpin wrote:

DownNgoinG wrote: IMHO the music really is a drug and in order to "stay high" we just need to keep making new strains that defy comprehension and break the mold of "genre-lization". Just my 2 cents.

interesting way to put it. but i do hate when people refer to all electronic dance music as techno... couldnt be farther off in most cases if you ask me..

and justly so, I rarely use that comparison

£10 Bag wrote:I think the wub wub bass might be abused a little bit, but if you compare dubstep to dub, and not dnb, alot of dub sounds similar but it is still fantastic. They use the same bass tones, sirens and drum fills in dub alot but it doesn't get boring and people are still making it 35 years down the line.

I'm not sure why people compare dubstep to dnb so much, I reckon its more dub than dnb.

I

DUBs changed a hell of a lot though, listen to the oooooold king tubby n scientist stuff n listen now to bush chemists compared with iration theyve all got mad differant styles but still its all classed as dub rather than what drum n bbass has doen and filtered out into all its differant sub genres with its purists in each. hopefully dubstep can stay like dub move forward as a whole genre as dub has done.

blacbeard wrote:What is too wac for Dubstep?

this thread

just do what u feel!

I'm quite up for trying a Van Halen dubsteppa after this - too many people think it began and ended with Jump. Probably wouldn't have got into making music at all if it wasn't for EVH in the 80's. Sammy Hagar stuff still sucks naturally.

Think Mean Streets is a better one to go for though or maybe Fools. Alex Van Halen is a ridiculously groovesome drummer to sample.

Personally though, I think Nobody's Fault by Aerosmith really needs a dubstep version doing

Do what you want - it'll either get accepted or not. If people are doing Bill Withers, Slayer and Justin Timberlake re-rubs sky's the limit.

shonky has thrown open the gates. I'm running through with him and I'm going to make out of it Dubstep. Alex Van Halen, cool.

Cheers Luke, I will do what I feel. I'm not trying to find out how small people think the cage is, I'm trying to find out how high people think the sky is.

Right on Salva, I think it would be great to keep Dubstep the umbrella name for the whole sound without to much pretension or presciousness about subgenres and sections within the scene.

Unrelated to this thread, heard a Thom Yorke Dubstep-ish tune yesterday on the radio, it was unreal. So fresh and cool, the beats were amazing I think many producers could learn a thing or two from his Dubs (so to speak).

Definately, some of Radiohead's rhythm programming is sick. What was the name of the tune, I want to find it now.