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Hating Muslims is socially acceptable
Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:55 am
by wub
Or so sayeth this Muslin;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12235237
"Prejudice against Muslims has "passed the dinner-table test" and become socially acceptable in the UK, a senior Conservative is to say. Baroness Warsi, co-chairman of the Tory Party, will warn against dividing Muslims into moderates and extremists.
She told the 2009 Conservative Party conference that anti-Muslim hatred had become Britain's last socially acceptable form of bigotry, and claimed in a magazine article last October that taking a pop at the Muslim community in the media sold papers and didn't really matter.
"It's not a big leap of imagination to predict where the talk of 'moderate' Muslims leads; in the factory, where they've just hired a Muslim worker, the boss says to his employees: 'Not to worry, he's only fairly Muslim'," she will say. "In the school, the kids say: 'The family next door are Muslim but they're not too bad'.
"And in the road, as a woman walks past wearing a burka, the passers-by think: 'That woman's either oppressed or is making a political statement'." Baroness Warsi will say terror offences committed by a small number of Muslims should not be used to condemn all who follow Islam"."
Is she correct in her statement that hating on Muslims isn't frowned upon in our society today? Or is any form of bigotry, no matter what the target, still unacceptable?
Re: Hating Muslims is socially acceptable
Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:57 am
by ashley
Look at this forum for more pathetic forms of hate.
Re: Hating Muslims is socially acceptable
Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:58 am
by wub
ashley wrote:Look at this forum for more pathetic forms of hate.
Less about hate, more about whether people think it's ok to hate. Forums breed pack mentality worse than a lot of places.
Re: Hating Muslims is socially acceptable
Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:22 am
by nousd
Hating on dogmatic shit will always meet with my approval.
Unconscionable belief systems
deserve the passionate approbrium
of the mindful masses alert to scams.
EDIT: my blind faith in sub being exempt of course.
Re: Hating Muslims is socially acceptable
Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:27 am
by phrex
mr hyde wrote:I love London and think that is largely because of the diversity and all that it brings with music, clubs, food, shops etc.
But diversity needs integration and people actually wanting to be British. My friend is a Primary school teacher in a 90% muslim school. The parents that turn up in Burkas are generally the ones that have a child every year and after 6 years some still need their children to translate for them at parents evening, no effort at all to integrate into the wider community. One parent has had 3 children all named after famous recent Muslim terrorists! (one or possibly 2 could be coincidence but 3?!?). If there is someone 'not that muslim' then sadly it generally means that they are more involved in the wider community of being what is traditionally British. ....and it bothers me in any religious community that doesn't want to integrate.
"And in the road, as a woman walks past wearing a burka, the passers-by think: 'That woman's either oppressed or is making a political statement'." ...I would think that myself, the Quran doesn't directly say to wear one and they weren't even that common in the middle east until last century, royalty using religious power in Arab states as the oil $$ came in.
sorry mate - but before shouting out 'integration' you should understand how immigration works.
let's start with urban planning. it has always been the case that immigrants move to the cheapest possible places (obviously bcause they are poor) - allright - that leads to a strong segregation. -> this leads to homogenous religious or cultural communities -> leads to a polarisation of the whole society.
integration starts, imho with urban planning!
if you have an urban region that is heterogenious there won't be problems and integration will happen on it's own.
hope you understand my point, my english is quite weak...
Re: Hating Muslims is socially acceptable
Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:30 am
by Shum
vulvavibration wrote:
integration starts, imho with urban planning!
if you have an urban region that is heterogeneous there won't be problems and integration will happen on it's own.
Totally agree with this.
Re: Hating Muslims is socially acceptable
Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:40 am
by phrex
mr hyde wrote:vulvavibration wrote:mr hyde wrote:I love London and think that is largely because of the diversity and all that it brings with music, clubs, food, shops etc.
But diversity needs integration and people actually wanting to be British. My friend is a Primary school teacher in a 90% muslim school. The parents that turn up in Burkas are generally the ones that have a child every year and after 6 years some still need their children to translate for them at parents evening, no effort at all to integrate into the wider community. One parent has had 3 children all named after famous recent Muslim terrorists! (one or possibly 2 could be coincidence but 3?!?). If there is someone 'not that muslim' then sadly it generally means that they are more involved in the wider community of being what is traditionally British. ....and it bothers me in any religious community that doesn't want to integrate.
"And in the road, as a woman walks past wearing a burka, the passers-by think: 'That woman's either oppressed or is making a political statement'." ...I would think that myself, the Quran doesn't directly say to wear one and they weren't even that common in the middle east until last century, royalty using religious power in Arab states as the oil $$ came in.
sorry mate - but before shouting out 'integration' you should understand how immigration works.
let's start with urban planning. it has always been the case that immigrants move to the cheapest possible places (obviously bcause they are poor) - allright - that leads to a strong segregation. -> this leads to homogenous religious or cultural communities -> leads to a polarisation of the whole society.
integration starts, imho with urban planning!
if you have an urban region that is heterogenious there won't be problems and integration will happen on it's own.
hope you understand my point, my english is quite weak...
yeah I get you, I live in London. People don't want to be all split up- especially if comming over as refugees, if urban planning deliberatly did that they would still just move together from their free will, and Im not against that- its interesting to have different cultures in different areas rather than everything being homogenised. Guess my point is certain people seem to
integrate into being British better than others, and Im not too keen on any community that is obsessed with religion and being separate from the rest of society.
THAT IS NOT INTEGRATION - THAT IS ASSIMILATION!
and that's not the same and not at all acceptable...
Re: Hating Muslims is socially acceptable
Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:50 am
by phrex
it indeed is.... no one has to be 'british' for fucks sake... a pakistani is a pakistani and he acts, lives and feels like someone form this region - he's not british. and stop being proud of your fake history of slaughter, slave and corruption
edit: i'm out of here before getting involved in some dickish argument.
Re: Hating Muslims is socially acceptable
Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:00 am
by badger
Shum wrote:vulvavibration wrote:
integration starts, imho with urban planning!
if you have an urban region that is heterogeneous there won't be problems and integration will happen on it's own.
Totally agree with this.
very true. the problem is that the blame lies on both sides
it's a similar with the ghettoisation of jews in that the communities feel safest when isolated from others (obviously this isn't always the case). part of that blame lies with them not being welcomed and part of it lies with the individuals not making the effort (although perhaps you could say that's done to not being welcomed...)
it's very worrying though having seen where similar situations have got us in the past, especially with muslims being viewed as a thread by many people. i'm sure it won't get anywhere near as bad as holocaust situation but we're already seeing massive human rights abuses by western soldiers when dealing with muslims
vulvavibration wrote:it indeed is.... no one has to be 'british' for fucks sake... a pakistani is a pakistani and he acts, lives and feels like someone form this region - he's not british. and stop being proud of your fake history of slaughter, slave and corruption
no one is saying that they have to drop all ties with previous cultures and become 100% british - but not bothering to learn the language of the country you're living in is incredibly disrespectful and shows that they have no interest in integrating into society. how can you possibly get along well in a community that you can't communicate with?
Re: Hating Muslims is socially acceptable
Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:05 am
by firky
ethinic and social cleansing is alive and well in modern day britain; who'd have thunk it? Only they don't call it that any more, it's called 'gentrification'.
before all the muslim bashing it was the irish.
cba with it all, just makes me want to put my head in the sand and stick two fingers up to the vast majority of middle england
Re: Hating Muslims is socially acceptable
Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:07 am
by firky
badger wrote:
no one is saying that they have to drop all ties with previous cultures and become 100% british - but not bothering to learn the language of the country you're living in is incredibly disrespectful and shows that they have no interest in integrating into society. how can you possibly get along well in a community that you can't communicate with?
There's plenty of people who were born and raised in this country who can't speak a word of English or have a British accent, I am thinking about people who send their kids to faith schools and don't let them mix outside of their own little religious community - not the Welsh
Get Richard down-your-throat Dawkins on the case and destroy religion.
And whilst we're on about isms, sexism and homophobism (not a word, I know) is extremely socially acceptable in this country; againt hanks to religion and the impact it has on societal norms and conventions.
Re: Hating Muslims is socially acceptable
Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:09 am
by Sirius
culture evolves!! british culture is totally different now... than how it was 100 years ago!
& yeah it is socially acceptable to hate muslims, jews & christians!
also it seems acceptable to hate on asians, arabs and indians.
oh & ya can't forget the gingas!
Tis more prevalent on the web, but it happens all the time behind closed doors!
Me personally... I find other cultures intriguing.
while I grew up we only had maori, samoan, cook islanders & pakeha (european decent).
our city has alot more people from other cultures here now.... & its strange, yet I like it.
!!chea
Re: Hating Muslims is socially acceptable
Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:05 pm
by mashmash
in birmingham, i've found it's not a religious thing but there is a lot of tension amongst pakistanis in particular, and it's quite a common thing to hear people slagging them off. i haven't got a problem, but quite a few you'll find in areas like small heath have this 'im a paki 4 lyf',style attitude, call white people 'goras' and come across as generally arrogant and try to intimidate you on public transport etc. but these are generally a minority, but give a bad name to the muslim community, which leads to hate towards them and bandwagon jumpers
plus, these are no worse than your average chav, and you get hate towards chavs, so more or less it's the same thing. it's not racism unless your underlying reason for hating them is just because they're pakistani
Re: Hating Muslims is socially acceptable
Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:10 pm
by Pedro Sánchez
badger wrote:
no one is saying that they have to drop all ties with previous cultures and become 100% british - but not bothering to learn the language of the country you're living in is incredibly disrespectful and shows that they have no interest in integrating into society.
Gov/councils need to take some responsibility for this as well, with the likes of housing benefit and JSA claim forms being printed in multiple languages, that's just encouraging migrants to never learn a native language.
Re: Hating Muslims is socially acceptable
Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:20 pm
by scspkr99
so the alternative is that you discriminate against those that don't speak the language?
Re: Hating Muslims is socially acceptable
Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:31 pm
by nicenice
Problem is, from what I've seen, muslims only see what other people think of them through newspapers such as the sun & the daily mail which are mildly racist and damning towards them. They never see what people actually think, which is mostly, they don't care. This causes them to become paranoid and withdrawn into their community. Most people I know aren't racist or hold racist convictions towards them, but when they interact the muslims often come across as hostile and and arrogant because they stay within their community and it only entrenches certain ideas into their head.