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This may be a taboo topic and I am probably going to get flamed but is it hypocritical of artist to get up in arms about illegal music downloads when many of them use pirated software and use uncleared samples?

I have a feeling many of them may have acquired music illegally before they were famous and got free dubs from everybody in the scene. Tell me if I am wrong.

I personally used to illegally download music but now I just make do with mixes until I can afford to buy releases, but not everybody is that patient. Not everybody lives in London where you can go to club nights for reasonable prices and hear new tunes on a good system regularly.

Can anything positive come from illegal downloads? Further exposure? Gaining a larger fan base?

Serious discussion please.

kentnz wrote:This may be a taboo topic and I am probably going to get flamed but is it hypocritical of artist to get up in arms about illegal music downloads when many of them use pirated software and use uncleared samples?

I have a feeling many of them may have acquired music illegally before they were famous and got free dubs from everybody in the scene. Tell me if I am wrong.

I personally used to illegally download music but now I just make do with mixes until I can afford to buy releases, but not everybody is that patient. Not everybody lives in London where you can go to club nights for reasonable prices and hear new tunes on a good system regularly.
Can anything positive come from illegal downloads? Further exposure? Gaining a larger fan base?

Serious discussion please.

London's prices are a joke by the sounds if it, my mate spent £60 in Fabric and came out sober because bottles were £6! In Leeds you can get a sick night for £6 in with £1.50 a bottle or shot Needless to say I never remember what happens in the time I'm there or in the time after that gets me home to bed! TopSome nights are bit more but one of them's Exodus which is one of the best ones in the country

Anyway, illegal downloads are still thievin' though the artist does get more exposure, the music industry seems to make more money on touring now than selling records. Either way I stopped using Kazaa etc because they just fuck up my machine, I get most of my music from freebie give-aways or just buy it in the sale now. Point on the illegal software and samples though, never thought of that though I have heard of pressing plants witholding runs because they've noticed uncredited samples! Probably a good rule of thumb is if you bite your material off someone else prepare to be bitten back...

Honestly, don't illegally download music. You'll enjoy it more if you buy it. And until you do, you'll enjoy mixes more. I downloaded like 30 gigs of music, and I listened to a few artists max. When I went to clean out my hard drive to make space on my old computer with all the music on it, I deleted all of it, and listen to what little music I've legally obtained. I enjoy listening to them so much more. Though, Trent Reznor supports illegal downloading of his music apparently according to a friend who happens to be a die hard NIN fan

The buying and owning of music will one day be just a part of the evolution of the music industry, eventually it'll all be wireless ipods connected to the internet where you stream music and pay a subscription. Live music and merchandise will always be where the money is really made.

Bands and artists see very little profit from album sales anyway.

henry rollins had a nice quote about illegal downloading once
"i rather be heard then paid,..." (can't remember the rest)
i can't blame you, if you are downloading illegal from the net cause i did the same few years ago, else i would be hypocritical.

psychedelicatessen wrote:Though, Trent Reznor supports illegal downloading of his music apparently according to a friend who happens to be a die hard NIN fan

I think System Of A Down feel the same by having one of their albums titled 'Steal This Album'! I think that was because it had loads of B-sides and off-cuts so it was pushed by the label rather than the band...

You brought up a good point about uncleared samples and pirated instruments. My personal opinion is, if you can't be arsed to buy your tools, then I'm not going to shell money for your tunes. Pretty much everyone in the production forum who says 'I've got both massive and fruity loops help me make tunes' simply pirated both.

And personally, buying my software forced me to learn stuff. If I shelled out quite a lot of money, I'm going to do my best to learn what everything does. We have this discussion in the production forum quite often, and it usually comes down to the people who actually bought their stuff feeling a bit ripped off at the whining kids who complain that they don't get enough allowance. There's enough free instruments out there, theresno reason to use pirated stuff.

As far as samples go, I think thats quite different. If someone, for example, sampled a baseline, did minimal changing to it and then just copy and pasted it, then yeah, I wouldn't buy their tunes if I knew about it. But if someone took the samples and then chopped them until you couldn't tell what they were, then I would say that's fine, they are adding a huge creative flare to the sample, and turning it into something completely different.

My opinion without consideration for the artists, if someone hands you something for free its not stealing and by all means...take it. But if your'e really trying to rspect the artist, you should really buy your music. Even if this isn't where most their profits come from. Think about it, just hooked up with a label id want people to pay for work too! This is most of their careers after all....

Uploading VA collections to web is a good way of getting yourself known, if you have the skill atleast. Put a bunch of Upd producers, then throw in a few of your own tracks, and if people like their first guess is your just a producer they haven't heard of yet! =D

I used to download a shit-ton of music. Seriously don't think I'd be into dubstep (or electronic music in general) without illegal downloading.

Consequently I wouldn't be shelling out cash these days for vinyls, MP3s, nights, etc.

Obviously I can't comment on how it is for anyone/everyone else. But it was a very positive thing for me.

please use search. this topic is literally the biggest loop of logic on this entire forum. these are just a few. there are dozens of threads about this....some 20+ pages.
http://www.dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=2440
http://www.dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=1101
http://www.dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=5011
http://www.dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=5071
http://www.dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=14871
http://www.dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=14743
http://www.dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=30711
http://www.dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=30768

psychedelicatessen wrote:Though, Trent Reznor supports illegal downloading of his music apparently according to a friend who happens to be a die hard NIN fan

true, he's been known to leak band videos on torrent sites himself

i find it hard buying digital music, it's not really tangible like a record or cd. computers break, files disappear etc. if ur unlucky u can end up with a big bill and nothing to show for it

however new sites where artists are getting a bigger share of profit/decide the prices can only be a good thing

psychedelicatessen wrote:Honestly, don't illegally download music. You'll enjoy it more if you buy it. And until you do, you'll enjoy mixes more. I downloaded like 30 gigs of music, and I listened to a few artists max. When I went to clean out my hard drive to make space on my old computer with all the music on it, I deleted all of it, and listen to what little music I've legally obtained. I enjoy listening to them so much more. Though, Trent Reznor supports illegal downloading of his music apparently according to a friend who happens to be a die hard NIN fan

It's true. Used to be a member of the infamous Oink.me.uk. I miss that site far too much!! Wrote a paper for uni on it just recently actually.

I've always said I download music but I also buy a lot of music. Don't give a shit what anyone says on the matter either. If it wasn't for me downloading, I wouldn't of gotten into Dubstep and I wouldn't of spent the money I have on the records.

When I start producing, if people downloaded my music...I'd take it as a compliment!

mVI wrote:I used to download a shit-ton of music. Seriously don't think I'd be into dubstep (or electronic music in general) without illegal downloading.

Same lol. It's definitly the best way to introduce yourself to a genre you don't know about. but after i found some names i started buying, it helps organize your libraries alot. Keep the massive VAs outta there

apmje wrote: When I start producing, if people downloaded my music...I'd take it as a compliment!

I honestly get really annoyed when I see bits I've been involved with floating about on the net. I understand the postive aspects of filesharing that people are talking about here but there's something about being ripped off that gets to me.

I don't see it like that but as long as people were enjoying my tunes, who cares?

whenever I buy a record on vinyl I almost always pirate it too
cant be arsed with any of that USB converting nonsense

AntlionUK wrote:The buying and owning of music will one day be just a part of the evolution of the music industry, eventually it'll all be wireless ipods connected to the internet where you stream music and pay a subscription. Live music and merchandise will always be where the money is really made.

Yep, technology is already there. It's just really a case of rolling it out. When I was a kid the only way to watch new films was either to hire them at a VHS shop (no such thing as blockbusters then) or get a crappy pirate copy. Within ten years I was downloading films off the internet and watching them on my TV. Ten years on again I can do that on my phone. Music is slightly different as the live venue is something entirely different but the process is the same.

Lose money on the product but make shit loads on the brand (artist) and the advertising.

yoowan wrote:whenever I buy a record on vinyl I almost always pirate it too
cant be arsed with any of that USB converting nonsense

Aye, it's quicker to dl, than rip - mad

apmje wrote:

psychedelicatessen wrote:Honestly, don't illegally download music. You'll enjoy it more if you buy it. And until you do, you'll enjoy mixes more. I downloaded like 30 gigs of music, and I listened to a few artists max. When I went to clean out my hard drive to make space on my old computer with all the music on it, I deleted all of it, and listen to what little music I've legally obtained. I enjoy listening to them so much more. Though, Trent Reznor supports illegal downloading of his music apparently according to a friend who happens to be a die hard NIN fan

It's true. Used to be a member of the infamous Oink.me.uk. I miss that site far too much!! Wrote a paper for uni on it just recently actually.

that site was golden, a great archive of music died when that went down. some rare assed hard to find shit on there which will never get shared on a scale that large again. Pity. Like a library of illegally obtained books. Some of the rarest, greatest and important books. And the library was open for the public, now; closed down.