Compression in "I need a doctor" by Dr Dre, why so heavy?
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:10 am
by Turnipish_Thoughts
I know my ears are becoming more trained because the first time i listened to this tune all I could hear was how unforgivably obvious compression is in this track. There seems to be next to no dynamic range and that real 'squelch' of everything being squashed into a box.
Do you think this is a production fo-par? or do you think this was intentional for creative reasons? I'm seriously on the fence. I mean yes sure, use compression/limiting/maximization to drive up the psycho-acoustic weight of a track, but I've always had the strong opinion that these things should be invisible, where in this case it's clearly audible.
Has the effects of modern studio sound engineering and audio processing on POP (/contemporary EDM music in general) music altered the cultural paradigm to such a degree that things as artificial and audibly processed as this can pass as credible industry standard releases?
Is the creation of our music being so process orientated within our culture, effected the perceived expectation of the audience to the degree that what can be argued as processing artifacts are now considered part of the expressive content of a track?
What's your opinion on this? And how do you feel compression and/or other 'invisible' processes should be treated in the production process, and ultimately, on the other hand, how do you feel their use has effected the overall expectations of a track in today's contemporary music culture?
Re: Compression in "I need a doctor" by Dr Dre, why so heavy
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:21 am
by Volento
There's plenty worse.
It's fine.
Re: Compression in "I need a doctor" by Dr Dre, why so heavy
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:26 am
by RandoRando
what exactly in it makes you think theres heavy compression? not doubting you, but i want to know what your hearing to say that as i dont FULLY understand compression? are you talking about how the whole song sounds flat? like nothing stands out its just one all-together audio clip? dont really know how to explain myself...
Re: Compression in "I need a doctor" by Dr Dre, why so heavy
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:45 am
by Turnipish_Thoughts
RandoRando wrote:what exactly in it makes you think theres heavy compression? not doubting you, but i want to know what your hearing to say that as i dont FULLY understand compression? are you talking about how the whole song sounds flat? like nothing stands out its just one all-together audio clip? dont really know how to explain myself...
No i know what you mean, it is hard to explain. Get a drum track running in your daw, slap a compression unit on it crank up the input gain (quite allot) and threshold, stupidly fast attack and really long release and get the output to the same relative dB as the dry signal (parallel FX terminology but meh). Everything is squashed as fuck and it all sound really excited, over the top and 'full' but its lost all its dynamic range and sounds, well, weird.
The thing with compression is just enough and you do attain that full and excited punchy nature, but too much and you run into the territory of it sounding really squashed and artificial, which is what the whole track sounds like, especially at the chorus. Pay attention to the kick, snare, splashy hats and vocals on the chorus, everything is squashed up against (re: compressed into) its maximum dB peak but It feels like different elements should be sitting at different levels and their transients should by flowing through different dynamic ranges. Its very audible compression (all-be-it the youtube video doesn't give this justice as its degrading the audio even further), sounding like the engineer put heavy compression or a brick wall limiter on the master out bus and cranked the input gain way up to squeeze a load of energy into the track, but only IMO he's done it quite a bit too much and lost to much of the dynamic range of the individual tracks making it sound squashed and 'trying to be bigger than the space its in', i guess you could say. Its a very subtle thing to hear but once you notice it you'll be like wtf?!
Any way what i find more interesting is what it got me thinking about, refer to my OP for that
Re: Compression in "I need a doctor" by Dr Dre, why so heavy
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:05 am
by gen_
It's simple really. Dre is from the old school where producers used to compress each sound individually to achieve a better overall sound. Dre's record is halfway between old school (the beat is more historical Dre than most he does these days) and new school (especially the sung vocal, which was most likely mixed by a different Guy)
Now dre's engineer/mastering wasn't his normal crew. If you listen to Massacre and GRODT its mastered completely differently. With Dre his masters usually have a multiband limiter on it because he compresses while mixing (easy to tell because lots of his old records with NWA have unmastered copies floating around) but this mastering engineer treated him like timbo (who limits a lot when mixing) and compressed him again.
Re: Compression in "I need a doctor" by Dr Dre, why so heavy
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:11 am
by gen_
Oh yeah, YouTube is as culprit too, especially at low bitrates
Re: Compression in "I need a doctor" by Dr Dre, why so heavy
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:16 am
by jrisreal
I don't hear a problem. Don't really like that track though.
Re: Compression in "I need a doctor" by Dr Dre, why so heavy
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:47 am
by nowaysj
Turnipish Thoughts wrote:Is the creation of our music being so process orientated within our culture, effected the perceived expectation of the audience to the degree that what can be argued as processing artifacts are now considered part of the expressive content of a track?
Jokes.
Re: Compression in "I need a doctor" by Dr Dre, why so heavy
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:55 am
by Turnipish_Thoughts
nowaysj wrote:
Turnipish Thoughts wrote:Is the creation of our music being so process orientated within our culture, effected the perceived expectation of the audience to the degree that what can be argued as processing artifacts are now considered part of the expressive content of a track?
Jokes.
Its obvious I'm not talking about purely synthesized sounds. I know this question falls flat when regarded in the context of Dubstep/DnB/Techno e.t.c. But thats the kicker. Are the processes used in these types of music bleeding out into the general perspective of what 'nice to listen to' in all kinds of music? That track is Rap, which is vocal/syncopation based, not technically what you would class as an electronic genre of music but its using something you'd normally hear on an EDM track, and not all to often at that.
Thats really what I'm interested in, that no one seems to have picked up on yet, the contextual implication.
Or were you just laughing at my choice of linguistics?
Re: Compression in "I need a doctor" by Dr Dre, why so heavy
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:11 am
by nowaysj
Turnipish Thoughts wrote:That track is Rap, which is vocal/syncopation based, not technically what you would class as an electronic genre of music.
Seriously, you have to stop.
Re: Compression in "I need a doctor" by Dr Dre, why so heavy
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:46 am
by gen_
Turnipish Thoughts wrote:That track is Rap, which is vocal/syncopation based, not technically what you would class as an electronic genre of music.
Actually very much Electronic Music. Moreso than EDM in some aspects, especially when you look at the new school hip hop which is almost entirely based around the TR808 and synth sounds. There are plenty of Hip hop beats out there that don't use a single sample.
You don't listen to hip hop much do you?
Turnipish Thoughts wrote:
Its obvious I'm not talking about purely synthesized sounds. I know this question falls flat when regarded in the context of Dubstep/DnB/Techno e.t.c. But thats the kicker. Are the processes used in these types of music bleeding out into the general perspective of what 'nice to listen to' in all kinds of music?
The reality is that all EDM synth inspiration came from the funk days of Zapp, Kraftwerk and Electro Hop like Planet Rock and early NWA.
....but its using something you'd normally hear on an EDM track, and not all to often at that.
Plus this is not a Rap tune, its a Pop Rap tune, and just like everything else, it means they add EDM (particularly house) elements to make it appeal more to those who live in mainland Europe and still think house is god.
Re: Compression in "I need a doctor" by Dr Dre, why so heavy
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:58 am
by Filthzilla
Ouch that song is awful!
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:05 am
by Gurnumsbug
.
Re: Compression in "I need a doctor" by Dr Dre, why so heavy
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:14 am
by gen_
Gurnumsbug wrote:Wow those drums sound so...flat? lifeless? put through multiple compressors, then some smart guy decided to throw a lowpass filter on it?
I'm in no way a pro at this kind of stuff, but I hope he intended to have his drums like that
Two words. Radio play.
Every pop song I've ever heard is hi-passed at 90. Minimum. Bass just takes up unnecessary signal, too much treble souds horrible in ipod headphones as they are very sharp at 5k and most people are too stupid to notice. Besides, this isn't exactly Dre tune of choice to play of your boom box.
Re: Compression in "I need a doctor" by Dr Dre, why so heavy
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:55 am
by budsteq
Filthzilla wrote:Ouch that song is awful!
lol.
and yeah. when I first heard this i didn't really think about the drums but got kinda sad that Eminem continues to put out shit like this. Alot of his stuff is still dope though. dre's verse is absolute waste.
Re: Compression in "I need a doctor" by Dr Dre, why so heavy
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:57 am
by jrisreal
budsteq wrote:dre's verse is absolute waste.
Re: Compression in "I need a doctor" by Dr Dre, why so heavy
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:03 am
by Karoshi
Filthzilla wrote:Ouch that song is awful!
Re: Compression in "I need a doctor" by Dr Dre, why so heavy
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:36 pm
by Turnipish_Thoughts
gen_ wrote:Now dre's engineer/mastering wasn't his normal crew. If you listen to Massacre and GRODT its mastered completely differently. With Dre his masters usually have a multiband limiter on it because he compresses while mixing (easy to tell because lots of his old records with NWA have unmastered copies floating around) but this mastering engineer treated him like timbo (who limits a lot when mixing) and compressed him again.
now this makes complete sense to me, that's a really good insight into what it could be.
Re: Compression in "I need a doctor" by Dr Dre, why so heavy
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:53 pm
by Filthzilla
I just really wish Em would put out more like 'The Eminem Show' album. That was sooo hot. Now it's just urrghhhhhhhhhhh.
Re: Compression in "I need a doctor" by Dr Dre, why so heavy
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:00 pm
by VirtualMark
so how often is dre taking steroids these days? looks ridiculous in this vid!
as for the compression, i thought it was an artistic effect! kinda like a low fi effect too. not overly impressed with this tune, considering he's had 10 years since his last album. and eminem just gets annoying to listen to on this.
