Dj'ing Dubstep with Midi Control (ableton)

[theofficialcityboy]

Hello everyone,
I am new to the forum and have been searching around a bit for some help with an ableton midi control workflow.
I can't seem to figure out the most efficient way to DJ through a set of dubstep tracks with a midi control, such as the mpd24 or trigger finger.
I'm not having issues with assigning controls between ableton and the controller, but am more curious to see what methods others have been using as they perform live. I know that Skrillex uses a trigger finger live, but he is not the best example of great mixing. If anyone has any suggestions or tips to throw out, I'd really appreciate it. Also out of curiosity, how essential is the use of headphones while dj'ing live?
Thanks.

[amphibian]

1. Headphones - if you don't have a pair, don't bother
2. Skrillex doesn't mix. Nor does he really "play" live. He simply tweaks knobs and controls volume/fx. I have a lot of respect for him as a producer, but as a DJ he is laughable. That said, he's coped with his lack of mixing ability well.
3. I would highly recommend watching the upteen thousands of vids on youtube about this very topic.

[theofficialcityboy]

Thanks for the tips. As for the headphones, I'm just working with a smaller budget and can't put together the funds for a soundcard that can have multiple outputs, but I understand is is extremely essential for dj'ing so I will have to find a way to make that work. As for Skrillex, I agree. It was probably a bad idea to mention him, but he is admirable for his production and I am stuck with a similar set up to his. I have tried looking through youtube for some information on this workflow, but most of the videos I get are people making beats with their mpd24s rather than going through the actual act of cueing tracks and mixing a set. I will look for it again, though, as I may have missed it the first couple of times through.
Thanks.

[RandoRando]

not to sprark a skrillex thread, but since he dj's with ableton, not assuming hes ussing premade sets, but does he bascially load a new wav of the song while one is playing and just layer it with the other one where he wants to start mixing them?

[Electric_Head]

not to sprark a skrillex thread, but since he dj's with ableton, not assuming hes ussing premade sets, but does he bascially load a new wav of the song while one is playing and just layer it with the other one where he wants to start mixing them?

No he prepares his mix before hand.
He tweaks during the show.

[RandoRando]

hmmmm ive always wanted to try and dj with fl. like actually do it live, but saw a big drawback cause everytime i load a new wav (especially one as large as a whole song) the audio with skip fr a quick second while its loading, to dj with fl is the only option to load all of your effects and songs before hand?

[Heartless]

Get a Launchpad for triggering clips, they are extremely affordable. Use the MPD for effects.

Rando, DJing with FL, or any other DAW besides Ableton, sounds like a total nightmare. Save yourself the headaches and forget you ever thought of it lol.

[clemsonheadies]

Just.. don't. Traktor or Virtual DJ.

[Electric_Head]

hmmmm ive always wanted to try and dj with fl. like actually do it live, but saw a big drawback cause everytime i load a new wav (especially one as large as a whole song) the audio with skip fr a quick second while its loading, to dj with fl is the only option to load all of your effects and songs before hand?

That is why you prepare the mix before.
Loading the wav during the event is too much risk.

[Hexodus]

Deadmau5 seems like he really knows how to do it if you watch this vid..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTCqeWu094I

But I still don't really understand his methods. He has only 2 audio tracks filled up for pages and pages (as you can see in the vid) and launches his clips/stabs with his pad; my question is how? I don't comprehend how you can only have 2 audio tracks and make a complete mixdown for a live performance? Can someone clear up what he actually means and how he executes this method?

[Disco Nutter]

Get a Launchpad for triggering clips, they are extremely affordable. Use the MPD for effects.

Rando, DJing with FL, or any other DAW besides Ableton, sounds like a total nightmare. Save yourself the headaches and forget you ever thought of it lol.

A Guy Called Gerald DJ's with 2 Reasons on 2 laptops, but said he was also learning how to do it with Live.

A Launchpad is definitely sick if you want to have lots of possibilities!

[blinx]

I use launchpad+bcr2000+ableton.

I prepare sets most the time and will have them chopped/cue'ed up to the drops/breaks i use to mix other tracks in/out of. I have two audio tracks/decks in ableton and have them routed to 2 seperate stereo outs (feed to my dj mixer). I keep each song in its own scene and use the LP to fire thigns off at appropriate times, then mix/eq the tracks with the outboard dj mixer. I also run seperate effects channels for each virtual "deck" that is linked to my bcr2000.

If i dont prepare a set, then ill be dragging mp3's and trying my best to punch things in right on the fly, which is pretty easy because ableton basically beatmatch's for you.

[theofficialcityboy]

Deadmau5's set up is just too crazy.
When you guys say "prepare sets," I doubt you guys mean to arrange the order of tracks in ableton's arrangement view and have all fading and mixing prepared, while just adding some fx? That seems like cheating.
Unless you guys mean to prepare which tracks you want to play, and have them ready in ableton's session view, allowing you to move them from a "virtual holding deck" into either virtual deck A or virtual deck B, and mixing between those two "virtual decks" on the controller. That seems like a simple form of deadmau5's concept. Mixing between two decks, and adding songs from a holding deck as you continue through your set, while throwing on FX and looping parts.
Blinx's idea seems to make sense the most, but I need to check into the purpose of feeding to the dj mixer.
On a side note, deadmau5's lemur looked really similar to "TouchOSC" on the ipad. Seems like an interesting idea to try out.

[Dreadfunk]

Doing A-B mixing with Ableton is pointless. You might as well pre-mix your entire set in arrange view and jump around on stage hyping up the crowd (skrillex).

The only reason to DJ with Ableton is if you are a producer and you can dynamically remix your own tracks / and audio stems (a la magnetic man / bassnectar). Ableton allows you to do a lot of really cool live performance type stuff, but unless you produce the chances of you being able to take advantage of that is pretty slim, unless you have a huge library of stems.

If you're just mixing between pre-made tracks, then learn the real art of DJing on real equipment.

[blinx]

While working towards Ashton Lorin ableton guru mash up status... i prepare sets for the moment, like find tracks in relative keys and make a list of tracks, then use ableton like a virtual dj turntable setup and cue the tracks up for easier mixing.... my alternative to traktor plus i do produce and remix material live on stage... with some real hardware even and a guitar in the mix oh my lol.

[upstateface]

Only thing i can't figure out about djing with ableton and my mpd, is how to mix without being able to see the eq of both tracks at once

[blinx]

Using a real dj mixer works pretty well and lets you have full control like a "real" dj would have at there finger tips.

[Dreadfunk]

Even using a traditional DJ mixer and using Ableton as virtual decks seems silly to me. Again if all you are doing is mixing 2 tracks together, then why not use something that's designed for that like Traktor or Itch or Torq. They even have a sync function if your too lazy too learn to beatmatch. To me the beauty of using ableton live is being able to trigger loops, add effects, and do live mashups. I just don't see the point of it for just mixing. It's a lot more clunky than any of the alternatives for DJing on the fly. It just doesn't have the crate sorting capabilites of your average DJ software. So that leaves you playing pre-planned sets and acting as a play button, instead of being a real DJ and feeling the crowd out and working on the fly. To each his own I guess.

[theofficialcityboy]

I understand how using ableton to just mix between A and B is a bit cheap, but I think it is a good place to start practicing at. I feel like ableton is a powerful tool and someone could use it to really put on a show.
In this video, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pinSdI8gzq4, ill gates is on to an interesting way to program ableton that allows it to be more useful than just mixing A and B. If a dj mixer is available and used with ableton as ill gates does, it seems to be really useful and intuitive for throwing tracks around.
Blix's and Dreadfunk's idea of throwing in loops and effects adds life to the whole concept for me personally. I am pretty sure I won't be able to to do much with the ableton set up in the beginning, but it seems like experimentation is worth it and can eventually pay off in the end.
Maybe later on I can try a traditional DJ set up and actually learn the art, but it seems like as of now I am stuck with creating my own art, which I am okay with.

[Mushroom Buttons]

I understand how using ableton to just mix between A and B is a bit cheap, but I think it is a good place to start practicing at. I feel like ableton is a powerful tool and someone could use it to really put on a show.
In this video, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pinSdI8gzq4, ill gates is on to an interesting way to program ableton that allows it to be more useful than just mixing A and B. If a dj mixer is available and used with ableton as ill gates does, it seems to be really useful and intuitive for throwing tracks around.
Blix's and Dreadfunk's idea of throwing in loops and effects adds life to the whole concept for me personally. I am pretty sure I won't be able to to do much with the ableton set up in the beginning, but it seems like experimentation is worth it and can eventually pay off in the end.
Maybe later on I can try a traditional DJ set up and actually learn the art, but it seems like as of now I am stuck with creating my own art, which I am okay with.

"i use it....... *hand movement* all the time! bassnectar uses it....... *hand movement* all the time! dj vadim uses it....... *hand movement* all the time!"

looks like a good template though!