Dubstepforum.com

I don't understand how to compose a song (where certain elements go). I can't get any of my songs to sound right :/ The drums seem to be the only thing I could get to sound good.

How my dubstep is composed:
Basically, I'll have an intro synth melody backed up by a decent sample and a constant synth chord (if I don't have a sample the intro sounds empty and boring). Then I don't know what to use for a buildup for the drop. I try kick or snare buildups but it sounds like doodoo. Maybe I'll throw a filtered loop but even then, it still sounds like crap. Then I'll filter the sample and synth to a low level and maybe stop it until the drop (a reversed crash would be here). Then the drop sounds like shit. I add a crash to the drop, the sub bass is heavy, the wobbles are there, the kicks hats and snares are there, but it still sounds like crap. I can't add the synth because then it sounds too overwhelming, but without it sounds empty. Like it sounds like wobbles and drums, that's not good or what I'm looking for. And it doesn't transition very nicely with the introduction. Then after 4 bars after the drop, it just sounds repetitive. What am I supposed to change?

Here are the exact patterns I use after the drop. The crash is the initial hit. Then there's a flute/piccolo layered together to make the melody. Along with that is a good wobble pattern (a continuous pattern using the same wobble i.e. similar to Downlink). Then I have a constant sub bass staying on key with the song (not doing anything fancy, just a steady bassline). Then I have the drums going along with it. But it sounds empty, unprofessional, and just repetitive.

People have told me to add stabs. They sound like crap with every song I try to make (mainly because I have no clue where in the fuck to put these "stabs"). Then I dont know how/what/when/where to add certain FX samples. People have also told me to use compression, but it seems like it does absolutely nothing when I use it. I've also tried panning, which makes no sense at all. Please help, I'm really dedicated to learning how to create it.

stru wrote:I don't understand how to compose a song (where certain elements go). I can't get any of my songs to sound right :/ The drums seem to be the only thing I could get to sound good.

How my dubstep is composed:
Basically, I'll have an intro synth melody backed up by a decent sample and a constant synth chord (if I don't have a sample the intro sounds empty and boring).

Try reading through this thread for some alternative intro ideas - http://www.dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=205879

stru wrote: Then I don't know what to use for a buildup for the drop. I try kick or snare buildups but it sounds like doodoo.

We had a similar thread re; build ups recently that might help - http://www.dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=209063

stru wrote: Maybe I'll throw a filtered loop but even then, it still sounds like crap. Then I'll filter the sample and synth to a low level and maybe stop it until the drop (a reversed crash would be here). Then the drop sounds like shit I add a crash to the drop, the sub bass is heavy, the wobbles are there, the kicks hats and snares are there, but it still sounds like crap.

How long have you been producing for? It takes time to get your productions to sound 'good', mainly as a result of a critical ear on ones own work, and also practice.

stru wrote:I can't add the synth because then it sounds too overwhelming, but without it sounds empty.

Sounds like this could be a mastering/mixing issue. Try reading through the moneyshot thread - http://www.dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=8

stru wrote: Like it sounds like wobbles and drums, that's not good or what I'm looking for. And it doesn't transition very nicely with the introduction. Then after 4 bars after the drop, it just sounds repetitive. What am I supposed to change?

You change whatever sounds right. Again, this is down to a) personal preference and b) practice. If you're happy with the sounds you've got, then it's either a case of making them work together (via the afore mentioned mixing), or else doing a bit more investigation into song structure;

Song Structure - http://www.dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=14222
Structure! - http://www.dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=34427
Song Structure help - http://www.dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=158508
how to learn song structure - http://www.dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=176174

stru wrote:Here are the exact patterns I use after the drop. The crash is the initial hit. Then there's a flute/piccolo layered together to make the melody. Along with that is a good wobble pattern (a continuous pattern using the same wobble i.e. similar to Downlink). Then I have a constant sub bass staying on key with the song (not doing anything fancy, just a steady bassline). Then I have the drums going along with it. But it sounds empty, unprofessional, and just repetitive.

If your songs are sounding empty, try fleshing them out with some background/atmospherics. Take a string sample and stretch it out to 64/128 bars, add a bit of reverb, sidechain it slightly to your kick so that it breathes in and out. This will add some background colour to your tunes.

stru wrote:People have told me to add stabs. They sound like crap with every song I try to make (mainly because I have no clue where in the fuck to put these "stabs"). Then I dont know how/what/when/where to add certain FX samples. People have also told me to use compression, but it seems like it does absolutely nothing when I use it. I've also tried panning, which makes no sense at all. Please help, I'm really dedicated to learning how to create it.

Stabs/fx/etc are all filler, and tbh having people 'tell' you where to put them is IMO counter productive. It's your tune, not theirs.

My overall advice (other than reading the afore mentioned links), would be to take a song you like, and try to copy it. Song structure, drum programming, where the random samples are, what sounds go where, how it's all put together etc etc. Copy that shit. It's a learning curve. Once you've got a close enough approximation to what the song sounds like, step away and look at what you've done, and how your actions have affects the overall result.

Now try it with another song. And another. And another. Repeat until you're happy with your results. Try listening to songs outside of your comfort zone i.e, not Dubstep. Get bored and try to recreate a techno track, a funky house number, some breakbeat, country & western...whatever. Just practice.


Hope that helps

Dude, come on, just make music. Don't be like "Oh I gotta make brostep lets try to make a song exactly like that other brostep song.".

Your music nor talent will ever improve if you think that you Will make à tune the first year. Try different techniques and my advice: stay away from the forums as much as you can so you actually learn things and dont just do things because someone told you so. Also, if you cant make à compressor shape your sound you cant possibly know what The params does! Tried treshold and ratio and just not output? If there is SOMETHING you should read its The technical stuff about compressors and limiters! Practice and the best of luck!

wub wrote:

stru wrote:I don't understand how to compose a song (where certain elements go). I can't get any of my songs to sound right :/ The drums seem to be the only thing I could get to sound good.

How my dubstep is composed:
Basically, I'll have an intro synth melody backed up by a decent sample and a constant synth chord (if I don't have a sample the intro sounds empty and boring).

Try reading through this thread for some alternative intro ideas - http://www.dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=205879

stru wrote: Then I don't know what to use for a buildup for the drop. I try kick or snare buildups but it sounds like doodoo.

We had a similar thread re; build ups recently that might help - http://www.dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=209063

stru wrote: Maybe I'll throw a filtered loop but even then, it still sounds like crap. Then I'll filter the sample and synth to a low level and maybe stop it until the drop (a reversed crash would be here). Then the drop sounds like shit I add a crash to the drop, the sub bass is heavy, the wobbles are there, the kicks hats and snares are there, but it still sounds like crap.

How long have you been producing for? It takes time to get your productions to sound 'good', mainly as a result of a critical ear on ones own work, and also practice.

stru wrote:I can't add the synth because then it sounds too overwhelming, but without it sounds empty.

Sounds like this could be a mastering/mixing issue. Try reading through the moneyshot thread - http://www.dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=8

stru wrote: Like it sounds like wobbles and drums, that's not good or what I'm looking for. And it doesn't transition very nicely with the introduction. Then after 4 bars after the drop, it just sounds repetitive. What am I supposed to change?

You change whatever sounds right. Again, this is down to a) personal preference and b) practice. If you're happy with the sounds you've got, then it's either a case of making them work together (via the afore mentioned mixing), or else doing a bit more investigation into song structure;

Song Structure - http://www.dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=14222
Structure! - http://www.dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=34427
Song Structure help - http://www.dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=158508
how to learn song structure - http://www.dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=176174

stru wrote:Here are the exact patterns I use after the drop. The crash is the initial hit. Then there's a flute/piccolo layered together to make the melody. Along with that is a good wobble pattern (a continuous pattern using the same wobble i.e. similar to Downlink). Then I have a constant sub bass staying on key with the song (not doing anything fancy, just a steady bassline). Then I have the drums going along with it. But it sounds empty, unprofessional, and just repetitive.

If your songs are sounding empty, try fleshing them out with some background/atmospherics. Take a string sample and stretch it out to 64/128 bars, add a bit of reverb, sidechain it slightly to your kick so that it breathes in and out. This will add some background colour to your tunes.

stru wrote:People have told me to add stabs. They sound like crap with every song I try to make (mainly because I have no clue where in the fuck to put these "stabs"). Then I dont know how/what/when/where to add certain FX samples. People have also told me to use compression, but it seems like it does absolutely nothing when I use it. I've also tried panning, which makes no sense at all. Please help, I'm really dedicated to learning how to create it.

Stabs/fx/etc are all filler, and tbh having people 'tell' you where to put them is IMO counter productive. It's your tune, not theirs.

My overall advice (other than reading the afore mentioned links), would be to take a song you like, and try to copy it. Song structure, drum programming, where the random samples are, what sounds go where, how it's all put together etc etc. Copy that shit. It's a learning curve. Once you've got a close enough approximation to what the song sounds like, step away and look at what you've done, and how your actions have affects the overall result.

Now try it with another song. And another. And another. Repeat until you're happy with your results. Try listening to songs outside of your comfort zone i.e, not Dubstep. Get bored and try to recreate a techno track, a funky house number, some breakbeat, country & western...whatever. Just practice.


Hope that helps

I....fucking.....love you.

ChadDub wrote:Dude, come on, just make music. Don't be like "Oh I gotta make brostep lets try to make a song exactly like that other brostep song.".

So wait, you're saying I can compose a song whatever way I want? If a song sounds good to me, it might not sound good to anyone else though and that's a negative :/

Weskr wrote:Your music nor talent will ever improve if you think that you Will make à tune the first year.

im sorry what?

stru wrote:

ChadDub wrote:Dude, come on, just make music. Don't be like "Oh I gotta make brostep lets try to make a song exactly like that other brostep song.".

So wait, you're saying I can compose a song whatever way I want? If a song sounds good to me, it might not sound good to anyone else though and that's a negative :/

and so the hell what? why produce what other people wanna hear, thats a downfall, question why your actually wanting to do this, such as.
Am i doing this to fit in? Am i doing this just to make money? Do i love making music for no reason?

stru wrote:

ChadDub wrote:Dude, come on, just make music. Don't be like "Oh I gotta make brostep lets try to make a song exactly like that other brostep song.".

So wait, you're saying I can compose a song whatever way I want? If a song sounds good to me, it might not sound good to anyone else though and that's a negative :/

The gift of good taste is not given to everyone.

oprs wrote:

Weskr wrote:Your music nor talent will ever improve if you think that you Will make à tune the first year.

im sorry what?

Agreed. I've only been producing for a few months. It depends entirely on the individual.

Well okay, back to my original post. What am I missing from my songs?

Finish the track, even if its not everything you wanted it to be... then start another track. I have finished 4 albums worth of tracks that are done mixed and mastered but suck still lol but i learned a ton from doing them and following them to the end and allowing them to breathe new life and inspiration into my production, instead of dwelling on trying to make that golden egg happen right away or everytime. Still my tracks, to me arent up to par, but they are getting way closer then before so keep it up man. Rinse and Repeat.

stru wrote:Well okay, back to my original post. What am I missing from my songs?

mate, no disrespect, but your wobs just arent filthy enough, thats why it doesnt sound good, get more filthier, and youll get all the noshing off you want.

stru wrote:

ChadDub wrote:Dude, come on, just make music. Don't be like "Oh I gotta make brostep lets try to make a song exactly like that other brostep song.".

So wait, you're saying I can compose a song whatever way I want? If a song sounds good to me, it might not sound good to anyone else though and that's a negative :/

If you're just making tunes what other people like, buy loads of sample packs and make a tune out of pre-built sounds what are fabricated to sound like producers who are big in the scene.

If you want to make music for yourself - do what feels natural. You will fall flat on your arse if your sole reason to making music is to get a big name for yourself so you can get fame, i'm sorry but we live in a society these days full of unwanted and unneeded celebrated people with a lack of passion or thirst to become the best at what they are passionate about and just have drive to be in the public eye. Please don't be "that" guy.





To the post above me. "make it more filthy" is the most horrible advice in the world.

If you want bigger sounding sounds - use better quality plugins more efficiently, don't just get distortion, wack it on max and hope for the best, making great sounds is all about something called signal flow and using those plugins on the signal flow properly.

Signal flow is way the signal goes through the channel to the master, for instance.

Channel 1
Saturation.
EQ1
Transient Shaper.
Soft Compressor (to take any nasty transients)
EQ2.
Limiter (to round off the final heavy transients)


That is a basic signal flow of a general drum bus of my tracks; in that order it works like this.

Saturation gives the drums more harmonics and "character", the EQ boots or cuts anything wanted/unwanted, transient shaper gives more snap (something the saturation might kill) the compression takes out any dynamics what might be to harsh, EQ2 boosts/cuts anything needed/not needed from the transient shaper and compressor, the limited rounds off the whole wave form so its pretty even.


To make more great sounding tear out tracks you need 3 fundamental things.

1) A full frequency range.
2) Thickness (pads, atmosphere, rich bass/leads)
3) A high quality mix down.

Don't be in such a rush to churn out fully fleshed out tracks ready for "da raves mon". Get them going and finish, but know that for a while the songs will be mediocre at best. It is with practice that knowledge comes, as with each time you wrap up a project you have gained experience (level up? ) and have added a little bit to your knowledge of building a tune. Have fun with it, and don't worry too much about nailing it right away. That'll come with time, you need to just gain that experience of song structure, mix technique, and the build up of knowledge of how to fill out a tune.