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I'm fairly new to serious dubstep production, and I've sort of hit a barrier with my production, mostly in the area of synths. I recently got Massive, and quite frankly, I hate it. It's confusing to no end, and the only way I've been able to come up with anything that sounds good is by following tutorials to the letter because there's no way to experiment. I have several sounds in my head that I'd like to be able to reproduce, and I have no way to learn the root of the sounds that I've been making. Is there any way I can learn the "basics" of Massive and other synths? I'm not looking for anything complicated, just something like demonstrations on what all the oscillators sound like, or selecting different filters.

Have you tried loading up a new blank user patch and just fiddling? Adjust each control and see what difference it makes to the sound etc?

Alternatively, try taking a patch that you like and deconstructing it - take it apart and build it up again from the ground up, again making a note of what parameters make what difference to the output.

Also, the manual that came with Massive is usually a good starting point if you haven't already.

BenTheDrummer wrote:I'm fairly new to serious dubstep production, and I've sort of hit a barrier with my production, mostly in the area of synths. I recently got Massive, and quite frankly, I hate it. It's confusing to no end, and the only way I've been able to come up with anything that sounds good is by following tutorials to the letter because there's no way to experiment. I have several sounds in my head that I'd like to be able to reproduce, and I have no way to learn the root of the sounds that I've been making. Is there any way I can learn the "basics" of Massive and other synths? I'm not looking for anything complicated, just something like demonstrations on what all the oscillators sound like, or selecting different filters.

how is there 'no way to experiment'?! Turn a knob, listen to what it does, bingo, your experimenting. The only thing stopping you from experimenting is youtube. Get off that devil site.

Welcome

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/allsynthsecrets.htm
Read, practice, read, practice, repeat.

Also what do you call someone that hangs out with musicians?

A drummer

Edit: forgot RTFM, and have fun

I could say something but I'm not going to because I would get banned, but...

If you want to know how to program synths to make the sounds you want, you need to just open a blank patch, look at ONE knob, read it's name, turn it, and listen to what it does. Then if you want you can google the name of the knob and find out what exactly it does.

I would suggest starting with a less complex synth though. If you're on FL I would suggest starting with 3xOSC. At first you'll think it's cheap and worthless and can't make any good sounds, but once you learn how to use it, you will understand basic synthesis and be able to do what you do on that synth on any other synth you want.

read the manual.

Sharmaji wrote:read the manual.

You posted that just as I edited my post.

Sharmaji wrote:read the manual.

This. Massive comes with a 115 page manual that covers everything, starting with the basics.

Thought these were pretty useful last year. There's 13 parts to it though so patience is key.
The below video is the second video as the first video is just an introduction video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZSR1fZWQPw

really massive sux sytrus and 3xosc is all you need
btw what DAW do you use

technical knowledge comes with experimentation
overwhelming yourself with engineering and tech knowledge kills creativity
make what you hear in your head, make mistakes and learn the tech shit as you go, then revisit and you'll be a better artist for it
trust

I think applies for all music related theory: the more technical knowledge you absorb (that outweighs and interrupts your experimentation time), the less creative you will be. There needs to be a balance, as you need both.

GothamHero wrote:I think applies for all music related theory: the more technical knowledge you absorb (that outweighs and interrupts your experimentation time), the less creative you will be. There needs to be a balance, as you need both.

noisia and spor are great examples imo

I think music theory and knowing how to write music is way more important than learning how to do a crazy synth.

Like, I can write a simple chord progression, and as long as it's listenable it'll be better accepted by an audience than just fucking around with an extremely complex Reese bass.

I came from doing a lot of sampled based hip-hop production and turntablist related stuff. back then I just had a sampler, a simple synth (which I didn't know how to use. just loaded a preset, turned a few knobs, applied fx) and some vinyl. back then I wasn't really into the technical side of things. if it sounded good on my sony mdrv150s then it was fine by me. didn't apply any sort of musical theory to any of the loops I made back then. stuck pretty tightly to the mantra of "if it sounds good".

when I got into edm things started to change. I became a lot more interested in the technical side of things. this was partly due to the fact that I was now using software. completely different way of working. when I had hardware I felt like I was ahead of my tools. when I switched to software it was the opposite. it was like all this functionality was way over my head. having a tool which you know is really powerful but one which you are unable to properly utilise is a very frustrating feeling.

so I decided to scale everything back and start from the bottom and work at my own (slow) pace. learned the subtractor in reason first, spent a couple of months only using that, then moved onto the malstrom, and finally thor. it's a slower way of learning but I feel it has benefited me (note: this may not work for all people).

I have massive and although I think it's a very well laid out synth, I still think it could be very daunting for somebody just learning. but like everybody else here said. just sit down and read the manual. won't take you that long.

they have lots of tutorials for massive on youtube and here http://www.massivesynth.com/category/tutorials/ but I find it's much more beneficial to read the manual first. because at least then you're not just watching/reading something where it's telling you to turn this knob, then do this, then do that. at least if you read the manual first you should have a basic grasp of WHY they are telling you to do this and that.

I found this video to be helpful when I first started learning synthesis http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMF8F9z7Zr8
these are useful too http://www.youtube.com/user/noisesculpture
you can also download a free pdf of "How to make a noise" here http://noisesculpture.com/how-to-make-a-noise

samurai wrote: you can also download a free pdf of "How to make a noise" here http://noisesculpture.com/how-to-make-a-noise

^ This

Synthesis has been confusing as hell for a long time for me as well. To the point that I didn't finish a tune in more than a year because I always felt too limited so I kept learning and learning.
I read lots of books and while I'm sure they helped me getting a better understanding I always ended up thinking "Ok, now what ? How is this going to help me make the sounds I like/want ?".
The video and text tutorials also helped exploring the possibilites of a given synth or technique but it also never really felt like I was getting closer to making my own sounds.
I'm not saying it's useless and should be ignored because even if it's not clicking right away I believe everything you pay attention to is stored somewhere in your brain and will help putting it all together eventually. Thinking that way helped me being more patient which is a crucial for what we do. But the things that helped me most I figured out practicing.
As obvious as it sounds you need a solid understanding of a) the synth(s) you're using b) the characteristics of the sounds you've in mind and c) how you can use each single part of your synth to reproduce them.
This series of tutorials really helped me understanding Massive better even tho I'm not much into the sounds the guy's making.

If you tell us what kind of sounds you have in mind perhaps we can help you figure it all out.

Also, layering is a very important aspect of sound design. I don't know how familiar you're with it so I'll start at a basic level and try to make a (very) long story short.

You'll use layering in both synthesis and sampling. You turned on the 2nd osc on your synth ? That's layering. And what you're looking for when layering is adding something your sound is missing, frequencies that weren't there and make it more consistent.
Sometimes it involves adding a waveform and tuning it up or down an octave to make your sound fatter or brighter, sometimes tuning up by a few semi-tones to make a chord (a basic understanding of chords is pretty important for that),
sometimes you'll use the same octave but the 2nd waveform will compliment the 1st other one, etc.
That's like painting basicly, you keep adding stuff that makes it prettier but you need to ask yourself what it is it needs.

Another aspect of layering in synthesis is the combination of 2 or more "full" sounds. You got that fine pad but it sounds quite far from those you hear in pro tunes. That's because you need 3 or 4 like that (with different sonic characteristics so they compliment each other, again, that's the whole point of layering ).

Same goes for drums, oftenly a kick or snare that may sound good on its own will not cut through in a tune. I'm sure I don't need to go through what you need to do at this point

No magical trick here, only careful study of other producers sounds and practice (!!!) will get you where you want.

Thank you all for your incredible help! I've been away from my laptop for 2 weeks, but I can't wait to jump back in and try some new things. Since several people have mentioned it, I use Ableton for my stuff. One thing I've had a problem with in the past with Massive, though: Is there any way to automate changes in the synced LFO rate?