LFO Sync problem in Reason 5

[Caligula]

Hey guys (and gals), I have a question cocerning the lfo sync as is pertains to multiple sources (e.g. 2 Subtractors) within a combinator. I'm having trouble, regardless of patch, envelope and filter, getting the "phase" identical for a tight wobble (the filters open and close at slightly different times in relation to each other). Each of my lfo's are properly synced and routed to the combinator so i can control the rate with a rotrory knob but still no luck. There is probably a simple solution but I just started using Reason, as my main studio cpu crashed and has left me without Cubase for now, and I'm not yet fluent in Reason, obviously. Can anyone help me overcome my ignorance please? ?

[-[2]DAY_-]

Subtractor's LFO is freewheeling. It won't key sync, which i'm thinking is what you want (the LFO to begin oscillating at the start of its phase upon striking a MIDI key)

you need to create an instance of Thor within the combinator, and route Thor's LFO to one of it's CV outputs, which in turn should be routed to Subtractor's Filter cutoff via the CV inputs on the back. Adjust the knob on the back of Subtractor, as well as Thor's mod matrix %'s, to taste.

Also, unless you would like to incorporate Thor's oscillators into the mix, make sure Thor's audio outputs are NOT routed to any mixer.

[FuzionDubstep]

try adding an arpeggiator on the combinator it doesn't open up the envelope as much its more of a sharp wobble but I prefer it a lot of the time over a standard LFO
depends what sound you're going for, but they should both 'wobble' at the same time lol, unless one has more attack than the other? or the lfo amount is turned down? check things like the cut-off, decay time and any additional effects aren't contributing I don't know sounds strange..

[lyons238]

^ this. also if you ever have say 2 thors in 1 combi (one sub bass and one mid bass) and you want them to follow the same LFO pattern, you can assign both instances of thors lfo to 1 knob on the combi and then you can automate that instead of having to automate 2. do this by showing the programmer on the combi, then where it says rotary 1, select thor 1 lfo to the destination then select thor 2 and assign it to rotary 1 as well. you can do this with any parameters that you wish to control with 1 knob.

[Caligula]

^ this. also if you ever have say 2 thors in 1 combi (one sub bass and one mid bass) and you want them to follow the same LFO pattern, you can assign both instances of thors lfo to 1 knob on the combi and then you can automate that instead of having to automate 2. do this by showing the programmer on the combi, then where it says rotary 1, select thor 1 lfo to the destination then select thor 2 and assign it to rotary 1 as well. you can do this with any parameters that you wish to control with 1 knob.

Right, this is exactly what I did, except with the subtractors, and I actually opened the same exact patch in both instances of subtractor just so I could be sure every parameter was identical, but alas, still a bit off. I found it very odd . But thanks guys I'll play with the arp as well and try to coax it into place and also routing through Thor's lfo...

[Caligula]

Subtractor's LFO is freewheeling. It won't key sync, which i'm thinking is what you want (the LFO to begin oscillating at the start of its phase upon striking a MIDI key)

you need to create an instance of Thor within the combinator, and route Thor's LFO to one of it's CV outputs, which in turn should be routed to Subtractor's Filter cutoff via the CV inputs on the back. Adjust the knob on the back of Subtractor, as well as Thor's mod matrix %'s, to taste.

Also, unless you would like to incorporate Thor's oscillators into the mix, make sure Thor's audio outputs are NOT routed to any mixer.

Thanks for the tip but not exactly my problem. No troubles with getting the wobble started where I want, it's getting both subtractors to oscillate identically in synch with each other (which i guess you could say is a problem with where one of the wobbles starts in relation to the other, but i still dont understand how this could happen with identical patches in both subs). When routing them both to the same combinator rotary knob failed I even tried controlling the second subtractor's cutoff freq with the first subtractor's lfo mod output but no dice. Frustrating the hell outta me at this point!

[lyons238]

Subtractor's LFO is freewheeling. It won't key sync, which i'm thinking is what you want (the LFO to begin oscillating at the start of its phase upon striking a MIDI key)

you need to create an instance of Thor within the combinator, and route Thor's LFO to one of it's CV outputs, which in turn should be routed to Subtractor's Filter cutoff via the CV inputs on the back. Adjust the knob on the back of Subtractor, as well as Thor's mod matrix %'s, to taste.

Also, unless you would like to incorporate Thor's oscillators into the mix, make sure Thor's audio outputs are NOT routed to any mixer.

Thanks for the tip but not exactly my problem. No troubles with getting the wobble started where I want, it's getting both subtractors to oscillate identically in synch with each other (which i guess you could say is a problem with where one of the wobbles starts in relation to the other, but i still dont understand how this could happen with identical patches in both subs). When routing them both to the same combinator rotary knob failed I even tried controlling the second subtractor's cutoff freq with the first subtractor's lfo mod output but no dice. Frustrating the hell outta me at this point!

well didnt u try not using any of subtractors lfos and routing them to thors? thors shouldnt have that problem. subtractors lfo can be a little fucky

[-[2]DAY_-]

ooh.. true. Well yeah, you could automate both subtractors' LFO's with a combi rotary but you need to make sure both are set to an identical scale (minimum value, maximum value). Also, both synth''s LFO's wil be freewheeling independently so even when the rate changes occur simultaneously, the oscillations don't.
Whether you use thor's or subtractor's the main fix here would just be to use the same modulation source on both filters.

[lyons238]

ooh.. true. Well yeah, you could automate both subtractors' LFO's with a combi rotary but you need to make sure both are set to an identical scale (minimum value, maximum value). Also, both synth''s LFO's wil be freewheeling independently so even when the rate changes occur simultaneously, the oscillations don't.
Whether you use thor's or subtractor's the main fix here would just be to use the same modulation source on both filters.

yeah thats why i suggested using a combi knob. i may have misinterpreted his issue

[Caligula]

ooh.. true. Well yeah, you could automate both subtractors' LFO's with a combi rotary but you need to make sure both are set to an identical scale (minimum value, maximum value). Also, both synth''s LFO's wil be freewheeling independently so even when the rate changes occur simultaneously, the oscillations don't.
Whether you use thor's or subtractor's the main fix here would just be to use the same modulation source on both filters.

Yeah that's why I reloaded the exact patch in both so I could be sure the settings were identical, but I'm thinking now maybe it's modulation on something else (fm maybe) that is making it sound out of sync when it really isn't. Gonna try that and the Thor lfos tomorrow. Thanks agin for you guy's suggestions though. Really appreciate it!

[lyons238]

ooh.. true. Well yeah, you could automate both subtractors' LFO's with a combi rotary but you need to make sure both are set to an identical scale (minimum value, maximum value). Also, both synth''s LFO's wil be freewheeling independently so even when the rate changes occur simultaneously, the oscillations don't.
Whether you use thor's or subtractor's the main fix here would just be to use the same modulation source on both filters.

Yeah that's why I reloaded the exact patch in both so I could be sure the settings were identical, but I'm thinking now maybe it's modulation on something else (fm maybe) that is making it sound out of sync when it really isn't. Gonna try that and the Thor lfos tomorrow. Thanks agin for you guy's suggestions though. Really appreciate it!

yeah like i said before if i were you id route each subtraktor to thors lfo's then assign both thors lfos to 1 combi knob. that should def do the trick because i do that all the time and it works like a charm. iv also experienced some out of sync wobbles with subtractor. but i cant even stand the sound of subtractors lfo so i never use it. thank fuck for CV ins/outs.

[-[2]DAY_-]

it doesn't matter if they're identical patches. multiple instances of Subtractor with LFO modulation will never be in sync. When you instantiate a Subtractor it's LFO is already freely oscillating. You can't ever tell it to stop or start at the same time as another. you can only change the rate, depth, and destination.

If you're trying to layer synths, just make sure they're sharing a mod source. Use CV splitter.
If you're trying to automate rate change by using multiple mod sources, you're going to want a key-syncable LFO like Thor's. You could use Thor LFO 1 and 2 set to different rates and just automate the volume of each subtractor.

[Caligula]

).

it doesn't matter if they're identical patches. multiple instances of Subtractor with LFO modulation will never be in sync. When you instantiate a Subtractor it's LFO is already freely oscillating. You can't ever tell it to stop or start at the same time as another. you can only change the rate, depth, and destination.

If you're trying to layer synths, just make sure they're sharing a mod source. Use CV splitter.
If you're trying to automate rate change by using multiple mod sources, you're going to want a key-syncable LFO like Thor's. You could use Thor LFO 1 and 2 set to different rates and....

Ahh, ok well this makes sense then. The last version of Reason I used years back didn't have that splitter so yeah, a great addition. I hear ya fully on the subs lfos, not too impressed with both nn's lfos either to be honest, bit I think it's past time for an upgrade to a Super Subtractor or something for Reason 6, it really is a fat little powerhouse synth, not to mention easy to easy to use (for the most part

[-[2]DAY_-]

i love subtractor for its oscillators -- they sound fat as hell on low octaves, have mad waveforms and a gnarly FM dial, as well as those interesting little switches near the phase dial ( - , o , x ) and i'm not entirely sure what they do, but i never seen em on anything else.

But for modulation, you really just need to reach for Thor. it's the only thing in reason with a proper mod matrix. just use it's brain and the CV outs and ins on the back of the rack, and combine within a combi.

[Caligula]

i love subtractor for its oscillators -- they sound fat as hell on low octaves, have mad waveforms and a gnarly FM dial, as well as those interesting little switches near the phase dial ( - , o , x ) and i'm not entirely sure what they do, but i never seen em on anything else.

But for modulation, you really just need to reach for Thor. it's the only thing in reason with a proper mod matrix. just use it's brain and the CV outs and ins on the back of the rack, and combine within a combi.

Works great, thanks again to all who helped and Fuzion for his help "behind the scenes". And I dig your tag line 2Day. Although I'm not partial to any of the "subgenre" styles in particular, I wouldn't mind leaving out the bro in brostep..