Sub bass presence..?

[Toolman4]

I played my newest song for my friend the other day, and he mentioned that my track lacked sub bass presence. Now he is just an EDM lover/show-goer, and doesn't quite understand production terminology to communicate proper feedback with me, but we deduced that it didn't have a strong enough low end presence. Now first off, I'm asking a production/mixdown related question, and not trying to self promote my track in any way. I have posted the tune in dubs for feedback, provided several people with some genuine and solid feedback, bumped my post twice, and still nothing. So I'm just doing what I must to continue getting better at this, so here goes *Takes a deep breath*: http://soundcloud.com/toolman4/overdrive-1

First the production side of things: Let's say I come up with a mid-bass sound, which I like when I play on A1. Sample the note with whatever movement, modulation,etc. If I split freqs, I always mono the sub bass range of the sound, and at the end of my processing of the sound, I cut out the low end up to 100~120hz. I then always take a clean sine wave, straight from massive, ( I know about vibrato/light distortion/Glide for movement. Not that I'm doing it here, just saying, I know about it.), sample a sustained A1, Eq out any wild freqs from *lightly* added processing, if any, and then layer that under the mid bass sound I created earlier. Now that is just my general workflow process of making bass. If there is anything during this stage that you think might help give more presence/doing it wrong (I know there are no hard fast rules, but there are things you can be doing improper), I'd appreciate it.

Second the Mixdown side: I have read the sticky to about page 26ish...If I have missed something SUPER integral, let me know and I'll continue reading/go back, but I have everything peaking around their suggested ranges (drums, sub, bass,etc), I have eq'd out all low end from my upper register synths. I side chain everything. I eq everything. Yes, I'm still learning, but feel I'm being driven into a rut by not getting any feedback on my tracks. I THINK they are getting better, but what judge am I when I want to reach out to people through music?

If anyone has the time to listen and give me any feedback on what they think about my sub bass query, the mixdown, the production, I couldn't begin to express my sincere gratitude. I need your help on this one guys. I know it isn't too many peoples' cup of tea, but if you could listen objectively in the context of technicalities, I'd be very appreciative. Huge thanks to all!

[Gurnumsbug]

The track sounds fine...
I don't think you want the sub to overpower the entire song!
Just use your ears man! cheers

[lyons238]

The track sounds fine...
I don't think you want the sub to overpower the entire song!
Just use your ears man! cheers

hey man that rhymes

[narcissus]

your technique sounds solid to me, it's probably just down to the mixing. don't follow suggested levels, if it needs more bass, turn up that sine wave channel..
but honestly for the feeling of bass 'presence', you may want to compress mid and subbass together a bit, to taste. can bring it to the 'front' nicely

[RandoRando]

The track sounds fine...
I don't think you want the sub to overpower the entire song!
Just use your ears man! cheers

hey man that rhymes

no it doesnt ?

[Electric_Head]

The track sounds fine...
I don't think you want the sub to overpower the entire song!
Just use your ears man! cheers

hey man that rhymes

no it doesnt ?

it really doesn`t

[JFK]

The track sounds fine...
I don't think you want the sub to overpower the entire song!
Just use your ears man! cheers

hey man that rhymes

no it doesnt ?

it really doesn`t

Just use your ears man! Cheers

I think thats what he is getting at.

[Electric_Head]

it rhymes as much as spleen and pirate do

[sunny_b_uk]

i can see why your friend said your song lacks a bit of low end presence, your mix down is clean however u need 2 experiment & try things out.
im gona try my best to help here..
id say eq & saturate your low-mids/ layer your basses in the song with a low-mid bass, obviously goin at the same key. also i use psp mix bass/ psp saturate on my basses and subs bcoz it does a better job on low end stuff, for me..
wen your tinkering with the low-mids make sure u cut OFF below 80-120 hz because the sub is hard to hear if your get it wrong! CLEAR EVERYTHING AWAY FROM THE SUB, low cuts on everythingg lol.
u have to experiment and get the 120-400hz range sounding phat while lettin your sub get heard, its easy to get this wrong though, u need good monitors and good ears, compare your bass to a similar ish song incase you spend too much time getting lost maybe..
also sidechain your kick and sub.
i personally stay away from compression but maybe parallel compression is ok sometimes..
these are things i do & it works for me. its difficult at first but its becomes easier with practice.

[Trichome]

i usually add a TINY bit of drive from my transient shaper to my sub, it shaves some dbs off allowing you to turn it up a bit more.

[Sparxy]

Try this
Don't make a sound, and isolate the sub bass frequency of that sound
Instead, low cut it completely
Layer it with a pure sine sub

As a general guide try lowcutting your midrange sound at around 90-100hz. Make a pure sine and highpass it around 80. You want the sine doing the same shit your midrange is doing in terms of melodies and LFOs. I will usually LFO the volume of the sine to match my mid range filter cutoff wobble

The purer the sine the more it is felt, and the more powerful it is. The more you add harmonics, the more power you will lose, but the more you will hear it. Make sense?

EDIT: I've just re read your original post and realised I haven't helped at all. I would suggest it is possibly a mixdown issue then. Try soloing the sub, are you happy with it? if so, then its simply not sitting loud enough in your mix

[Toolman4]

Quite funny how quickly a thread can get off topic

Anyways, thanks to all who listened and provided feedback/a response. I was quite worried I'd be eaten alive or locked but *phew*.
@ sunny_b: I appreciate you taking the time to provide some production tips. I do pretty much everything you said, so I'm going to go with working on the mixdown.
@Trainrek: Dude, good tip. Forgot about doing that, so I'll implement that in the next track. Thank you.
@Sparxy: After going back to the mix, I just realized that my issue was a simple as that. I did everything right in the context of fundamental production techniques, however I just need to turn up the sub! Of course, compensating elsewhere in other elements of the song for it to take up more headroom.

Thanks all. really.

[sunny_b_uk]

Quite funny how quickly a thread can get off topic

Anyways, thanks to all who listened and provided feedback/a response. I was quite worried I'd be eaten alive or locked but *phew*.
@ sunny_b: I appreciate you taking the time to provide some production tips. I do pretty much everything you said, so I'm going to go with working on the mixdown.
@Trainrek: Dude, good tip. Forgot about doing that, so I'll implement that in the next track. Thank you.
@Sparxy: After going back to the mix, I just realized that my issue was a simple as that. I did everything right in the context of fundamental production techniques, however I just need to turn up the sub! Of course, compensating elsewhere in other elements of the song for it to take up more headroom.

Thanks all. really.

its okay, yeh mixdowns can b a PAIN in the ass when theres tonnes of sounds going on so i thought id try help.
i personally like to saturate my subs a tiny bit but thats me.
u can get certainly do fine with using a pure sine and could sound amazing as long as u got a phatt low-mid on your mid range basses. the low-mid area is the hardest part to get right since it can get muddy if not careful, but this is what makes your song sound phat on even the shittest speakers also make sure you have no other sounds in the mix hitting the low-mid area or your done for!
another tip i can giv is to make several versions of the same song, example: a version that has more sub, 1 with way more sub, 1 with more low-mid area boosted etc.. then test all of them in car speakers, hifi, your mobile fone and laptop speakers (trust me on the last 2 lol). this is help you get your mix better especially if u write some notes on what you think needs improving when u hear it on each system. when u notice the same kinda problems occurring on all these different speakers then you know what needs sorting.
anyway yeah although u might do all this things or half of them but i thought id mention anyway since its really worth doing all this to your songs! better mixdowns & having a better sub/low-end just bring a whole new life to your music & people will rate you more for it!

[Little Monster]

New guy butting in! I have this same low end problem...I have been trying to read along and figure out my problem..but all the technical terms you guys are using has got me lost ... im not a noob to dubstep production i just have no technical knowledge as ive learned everything i know by youtube and stuff hands on... but I CANT GET THIS SUBBASS RIGHT FOR THE LIFE OF ME ....as my tracks sound good on home stereos and stock radios and what not but when i put in my car with two 12s its.......meh....can someone please baby me through this or lead me to a thread that explains all the terms you all are using...ok...fanks...bye ......this is my last resort !!!!

[Toolman4]

i usually cut the 200 - 500 hz range on most of my mid bass sounds that aren't accentuated in that range...and if there are more than one playing at the same time, i have to choose. Only ONE sound plays at a time with that freq range being accentuated. Every other bass sound playing at the time doesn't have it. For me personally, turning down the level of my kick drum and readjusting the levels for every other element really helped (following the mixing sticky). In my song I have a lot of top end playing with the sub bass. So while it's presence must be felt, it can only take up so much headroom. The upper register synths still need to be heard as well. @ Little Monster: Send me a link to an example song of yours you think doesn't translate well to systems in the context of bass....I'd be interested to see if we experience similar things as far as loss of sub bass presence...

[sunny_b_uk]

i usually cut the 200 - 500 hz range on most of my mid bass sounds that aren't accentuated in that range...and if there are more than one playing at the same time, i have to choose. Only ONE sound plays at a time with that freq range being accentuated. Every other bass sound playing at the time doesn't have it. For me personally, turning down the level of my kick drum and readjusting the levels for every other element really helped (following the mixing sticky). In my song I have a lot of top end playing with the sub bass. So while it's presence must be felt, it can only take up so much headroom. The upper register synths still need to be heard as well. @ Little Monster: Send me a link to an example song of yours you think doesn't translate well to systems in the context of bass....I'd be interested to see if we experience similar things as far as loss of sub bass presence...

it depends on the sound really, yeh on some basses il totally cut off below that point as well, but for big drops and for certain phats basses within the song i guess u really need some lower mid range. its best 2 have a bit of variation in the frequencies of the basses.. if every bass had phat basses all the way through the song would get boring, yet the song would be lifeless with thin-ish basses all the way through. its down to the producer if they want this kind of variation i guess.
but yeh tbh some people like myself like 2 mess with the sub and add warmth to it a tiny bit, but a lot of the top producers say they use a clean sine wave.
also using a good limiter at the end is needed when doing a quick master. most limiters just mess up the subs volume completely!

[psychedelicatessen]

I've found that typically I end up putting my sub bass a couple dbs under my kicks, and my bass sits in the mix with just enough volume to give presence of the sound of my bass. Also, when I analyzed some of my sub bass tracks, having harmonics added hitting around 1000hz-1500hz gave it a really nice presence without impacting the power of my sub.

Just a few loose pointers for consideration that I've just naturally found to sound good to me, and when I show my songs to people, they all say the bass is the best part, which is what I kind of aim for.
Question for you, OP, how is the higher end of your tunes/mixes? Do they sound good? I've found that tunes where my sub/bass wasn't loud enough that the mixes sounded "light" and brighter than I'd like. Dunno if that is even relevant to you however, but looking out of the immediate picture could help. Ultimately, how one element sits in a mix affects the entire mix.