sub epiphany

[Gewze]

i had an idea on the bus home when i was high.
if i grabbed a pure sine and dropped it to like 40-70hz and lowpassed it at 70hz then got a more audible square/saw sub and hipassed it at 70hz.
would that work to make club subs boom but aswell make car subs and shit like that boom aswell without clashing and the sub shit.

id try this myself but i dont have much access to good speakers

[Teknicyde]

If you grabbed a pure sine and lowpassed it it would have no effect. Sines are single frequency, therefore filters and EQs dont effect them until they hit that frequency, and from there they become a volume control relative to their db per octave.

Adding the square/saw and highpassing it, would have an effect. It would incorporate the upper harmonics of the sound via additive synthesis theory, however, highpassing it would simply prevent the doubling of amplitude you would get on the sine wave, where the saw and sine shared the harmonic.

You could do with some more studying of synthesis mang.

The most efficient way for a speaker to move is in a gradual slope, ie. sine wave... If you think about it, a square is an incredibly unnatural motion for a speaker cone to make, vs. a sine is an incredibly efficient one... So any additive effects on the sine from the highpassed waveform would only serve to make 'club subs' move in a less efficient way...

Its actually a common technique to slightly accent sine waves to translate better on smaller systems. But its a very give and take sort of road, and should be walked down with caution, and only taken if you know exactly what you are doing.

[1point5]

If you grabbed a pure sine and lowpassed it it would have no effect. Sines are single frequency, therefore filters and EQs dont effect them until they hit that frequency, and from there they become a volume control relative to their db per octave.

Yeah that's pretty much true, but i recently discovered that unless your EQ is ridiculously accurate, a lowpass can actually fatten your sub quite a bit just from the coloration of the EQ plugin.

[Teknicyde]

If you grabbed a pure sine and lowpassed it it would have no effect. Sines are single frequency, therefore filters and EQs dont effect them until they hit that frequency, and from there they become a volume control relative to their db per octave.

Yeah that's pretty much true, but i recently discovered that unless your EQ is ridiculously accurate, a lowpass can actually fatten your sub quite a bit just from the coloration of the EQ plugin.

Not pretty much, just is true. I didnt say anything about saturating plugins or anything, just the physics of electricity/sound.

And there is nothing 'ridiculous' about an accurate digital EQ... Its standard.

[1point5]

If you grabbed a pure sine and lowpassed it it would have no effect. Sines are single frequency, therefore filters and EQs dont effect them until they hit that frequency, and from there they become a volume control relative to their db per octave.

Yeah that's pretty much true, but i recently discovered that unless your EQ is ridiculously accurate, a lowpass can actually fatten your sub quite a bit just from the coloration of the EQ plugin.

Not pretty much, just is true. I didnt say anything about saturating plugins or anything, just the physics of electricity/sound.

And there is nothing 'ridiculous' about an accurate digital EQ... Its standard.

Yeah i know the science behind it but try it for yourself, there is a difference in sound (in Logic there is anyway)

[Teknicyde]

If you grabbed a pure sine and lowpassed it it would have no effect. Sines are single frequency, therefore filters and EQs dont effect them until they hit that frequency, and from there they become a volume control relative to their db per octave.

Yeah that's pretty much true, but i recently discovered that unless your EQ is ridiculously accurate, a lowpass can actually fatten your sub quite a bit just from the coloration of the EQ plugin.

Not pretty much, just is true. I didnt say anything about saturating plugins or anything, just the physics of electricity/sound.

And there is nothing 'ridiculous' about an accurate digital EQ... Its standard.

Yeah i know the science behind it but try it for yourself, there is a difference in sound (in Logic there is anyway)

Man, if what your saying is true, get a better EQ. I find it very difficult to believe though, I think your mind is playing tricks on you.

[Gewze]

If you grabbed a pure sine and lowpassed it it would have no effect. Sines are single frequency, therefore filters and EQs dont effect them until they hit that frequency, and from there they become a volume control relative to their db per octave.

Yeah that's pretty much true, but i recently discovered that unless your EQ is ridiculously accurate, a lowpass can actually fatten your sub quite a bit just from the coloration of the EQ plugin.

Not pretty much, just is true. I didnt say anything about saturating plugins or anything, just the physics of electricity/sound.

And there is nothing 'ridiculous' about an accurate digital EQ... Its standard.

Yeah i know the science behind it but try it for yourself, there is a difference in sound (in Logic there is anyway)

Man, if what your saying is true, get a better EQ. I find it very difficult to believe though, I think your mind is playing tricks on you.

i think i get what he's says about the eq. if you get the cut off on the lpf on massive just right it sound likes its fattening it up but i think its just increasing the volume.

and cheers for the info basic A

[Teknicyde]

i think i get what he's says about the eq. if you get the cut off on the lpf on massive just right it sound likes its fattening it up but i think its just increasing the volume.

and cheers for the info basic A

No he said logic's EQ.

Massive doesnt have a pure sine, or any accurate filters, its 'analog modeled'... definately use something else for sine waves and keep your creative eqing vs/ mix eqing seperate.

[Gewze]

i think i get what he's says about the eq. if you get the cut off on the lpf on massive just right it sound likes its fattening it up but i think its just increasing the volume.

and cheers for the info basic A

No he said logic's EQ.

Massive doesnt have a pure sine, or any accurate filters, its 'analog modeled'... definately use something else for sine waves and keep your creative eqing vs/ mix eqing seperate.

i was just using that as an example.

[Ascian]

If your EQ is making your sub slightly louder or changing it in some way, it probably has a little resonance on the frequency the sine wave is hitting

[bigfootspartan]

That's a good call. Another idea you can use is to link all your different sub basses (if you have multiple instances wi different envelopes) to a single bus. Then use a send from that bus to add some inserted saturation and distortion. for the final insert use a HPF or an EQ to cut out the muddy lower end.

I found that allows me have the power of a sine sub while still having a bit of saturation to give it some grit.

[Toolman4]

DON'T use Massive for sine waves?! Really?!...I'm not challenging the point, I'm sincerely asking...cause I sure have come across a LOT of tutorials, references, etc that utilize massive for sub bass using sine waves...I have also come across a good amount though that say, for ableton users (mainly cause that's what I own and have experience in research) create their clean sine wave in operator. Is that recommended vs Massive? ...But hey, I'm all for learning/hearing what you have to say.

[ComfiStile]

Massive does have a sine wave. It's in the form of a sin/square waveform dialed all the way anti-clockwise.

Though, personally I don't use massive for a sine wave. Don't see the point in using a synthesiser with a higher cpu usage for something that can be done with a simple 3xOsc (or equivalent), only using one oscillator.

[blinx]

Massive does have a sine wave. It's in the form of a sin/square waveform dialed all the way anti-clockwise.

Though, personally I don't use massive for a sine wave. Don't see the point in using a synthesiser with a higher cpu usage for something that can be done with a simple 3xOsc (or equivalent), only using one oscillator.

this for sure.

[-[2]DAY_-]

car subs will boom with a sine test tone, pretty much in the same way a club sub would. just smaller..
it might be your tweeters you wanna worry about hitting. but yeah, layering does work.

[Dystinkt]

Distance uses massive for his subs, so it can be done

[Dystinkt]

Thought Id drop a knowledge bomb on everyone there for my 400th post

[Teknicyde]

Distance uses massive for his subs, so it can be done

Im not doubting that it can be done. Of course it 'can be done'... just isnt going to be a pure sine, even if you use sin-sq as mentioned above.

[SoDank]

Thought Id drop a knowledge bomb on everyone there for my 400th post

Actually in Distance's tutorial he says that he chose Massive because a lot of people have it and its fairly simple to follow. He even says "this isnt necessarily what I use, but..."

[Sine69]

Distance uses massive for his subs, so it can be done

Im not doubting that it can be done. Of course it 'can be done'... just isnt going to be a pure sine, even if you use sin-sq as mentioned above.

Why not though? Just curious.
It looks and sounds pretty sine wavey to me.