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Hi guys

I have noticed a lot of DJ's are moving towards the ableton live setup instead of using CDJS/turntables etc.

What do you prefer and why??

Vinyl or CDJs if you just want to turn up and play. Ableton if you want to invest time in building something really good and preparation. If you're going to just use ableton to trigger 1 song after another then it's pretty uninteresting but with some time and work you and truely take it so much further, the only problem is very few people actually do that.

this is why im trying to learn ableton,

I think if you're doing some kind of live "show" then Ableton is great. I hardly see how you can do a DJ set with it though. It just isn't the same as mixing in my opinion. I'm not bashing using Ableton for live stuff, I just don't think the majority of people using it for that purpose are doing it properly.

I use Ableton for both my live sets as well as my dj sets on Sub.FM.

It's definitely true to say the CDJs are more immediate, and preparation is needed for Ableton (you can dj on the fly in Ableton, but it helps if you have prewarped the tracks)... but I wouldn't say one is truer to "real" mixing than the other. Most CDJs have pretty solid bpm detection (better than Ableton's) so it isn't like the machine isn't harboring a decent bit of the burden in either case. Also - in terms of pre-warping tracks - I disagree with those who say it is a cheat... seeing that Traktor & Serato can save bpms as well.

The main difference boils down to manual control... and it is the one thing I miss about not using decks. Ableton allows for fx, beat mangling, on the fly remixing, whatever... and it is great. Also with a good crossfader controller you can do some dope cutting between tracks... but there isn't a means to truly scratch in Ableton.

Yeah man, like I said i'm not knocking ableton. I haven't really fully gotten my head into making sets / DJing with it tbh, any of you guys have any good tutorials to follow? It would be much easier to slap a studio mix together in Abe than have to record it multiple times before getting a perfect one!

My only gripe with Ableton being used for DJ sets is that it seems to take all the fun out of mixing. It just doesn't feel like blending when you're doing it. This is echoed by watching DJs that use it, they are usually motionless, messing with their touchpad, dragging and dropping... there's just no excitement in it. Compare that to a DJing completely smashing it on a pair of Technics, you really see the DJ getting into it, head bobbing etc. It just seems like more of an an event.

Having said that, I have seen some people do some wicked stuff with Abe live. I'm open to having my mind changed for sure!!! just don't think most people are making the most out of it yet.

RandoRando wrote:this is why im trying to learn ableton,

You sure wont regret it!


And the fact that you can assign any parameter settings and just about everything to your midi leaves you with a shit load you can do live....

Good old use your ears traditionalist here. I know CDJs have bpm counters, all I know how to do on them is push play, set cue's, and move the pitch fader. I like it that way though, dont care to learn how the sync buttons work, so I dont ever feel tempted to use them. Keeps my skills sharp, and leaves me knowing that I can jump on 99% of the setups out there and start mixing without blinking twice about it.

Cocky statement - give me a 2 deck 2 cdj setup, Ill do cooler stuff then you will with ableton. Theres something way cooler about a juggle than a beat repeat.

I'd jock discs.

Teknicyde wrote:
Cocky statement - give me a 2 deck 2 cdj setup, Ill do cooler stuff then you will with ableton. Theres something way cooler about a juggle than a beat repeat.

My Cocky statement: been juggling since I was 13. Give me my custom control, outboard efx rack, my custom max patches and i'll do shit live with ableton that you'd think was impossible and make juggling sound like a nursery game.

that being said, vinyl for dj'ing.

No cocky statements for me. I'm a shit DJ. I usually just go for a laptop and a controller. Once I got enough tracks to my name though, I think doing a live show with Ableton would be cool. Have all the parts of each track as patterns and just mix and match as I go. Something like Daft Punk's Alive '07.

I've been using ableton for a couple of years now, and initially i was just triggering tracks one after another. The thing is that this sort of technique can get really really boring for you and the crowd. Its when you develop your own template, style, and ways of mixing/mashing/arranging/mangling the audio that ableton gets really fun. even moreso when you use your own material. On the other hand, its super convenient to role up to a show and pull cds out of your holster and fire away! I've seen some artists do insane things with vinyl and cdjs that wouldn't translate onto ableton whatsoever (Benga is disgusting on vinyl and freq nasty shreds on cdjs). One isn't particularly better, they're both just different. However, for the love of god if you use ableton please don't premix everything in arrangement view and press play and just beat repeat over it. Imo skrillex puts on a really boring ableton show. For good template reference and creative use of ableton check out ill. Gates, heyoka, and sometimes bassnectar. ill. gates also sells templates on his website http://illgates.com/music-tools/

I hate laptop djs
i dont mind if your using a laptop aswell as decks but on its own i think its pathetic
Just my opinion...

Darkow wrote:Hi guys

I have noticed a lot of DJ's are moving towards the ableton live setup instead of using CDJS/turntables etc.

Datsik "anyone whos bashing ableton, obviously doesnt know the possibilities with it.. I'm not switching to it because I can't DJ on turntables, I've been doing that for years and have played tons and tons of shows with them.. Ableton is about taking it to the next level!! Feel me?"

Premixing a set in ableton and tweaking filters FX beat repeat etc with your midi controller when playing at a gig (typical skrillex) OR mixing live on stage with your CDJ's?

I do agree there are more possibilities as well as its nice to be prepared with your tracks all lined up and CDJ's are fucking expensive jeeees!

What do you prefer and why??

I use ableton. I imagine, Datsik is going to ableton because hes been doing alot of festival dates and songs with Lorin from Bassnectar who uses ableton alongside the ill.gates trigger finger dj template. You can do alot more and not have to have premade sets in ableton if you use the ill.gates/ill.methodology of djing and shit. I use a ill.gates template modified for my current midi options (LP+bcr2000) but once i buy the apc40 im moving to the full blown apc40 ill.gates template (its got everything a dj needs and more) and it will really take my live shit to the next level. Check the ill.gates site out if your looking to dj with ableton, this guy literally is an ableton mad genious.

I wouldnt mind getting a set of cdjs (as a back up if nothing else) but that would just be an after thought at this time any free cash ihave will be headed towards an apc40 baby.

Im still trying to wrap my head around what people mean by making your own template and develop your won style for ableton. Isnt is just triggering clips? How do you make your way of using ableton your own?

im still learning ableton, and im sure there is alot of features i dont know about

Darkow wrote:Yeah I am trying to get my hands on the ll Gates templates.

If someone could just drop me a basic kind of template in the dl so that I can play around before buying ill gates templates i would reallly appreciate that?

Mediafire anyone>? :/

No he makes his living off this stuff man and 50 bucks isnt a big deal its def. worth the small investment i spent the 50 bucks last year then got all his new stuff (minus the ipad and apc40) templates as a free upgrade.

RandoRando wrote:Im still trying to wrap my head around what people mean by making your own template and develop your won style for ableton. Isnt is just triggering clips? How do you make your way of using ableton your own?

im still learning ableton, and im sure there is alot of features i dont know about

You can completley write your own applications based around Live using MAX4LIVE programming environment like monome(sp?), 7up, mlr5 are which allow for diverse looping and sampling abilites larger then just launching a clip once and a hwile (pretty sure pretyt lights used to use mlr5 heavily). Or you can work within the constraints of live and build your template using and abusing racks, midi routing stuff. If you watch his video he has built custom multi effect dj racks created the entire four turntable simulation channels and has eqing and filters all assigned to knobs in an intutive fashion so your not reading lcd readouts , punch in effects and whole new way to abuse the session view of ableton live dynamically without sounding like daft punk or deadmau5. His templates also take "perofrmance" pieces into mind allowing for you to control vocals,hits or even playing live synth lines while still haveing control over the track like a dj.

The ill.gates template really is worth the money for his punch in effects solution, he did alot of work on those and thats the part of the tempalte that people have trouble reconstructing or modifying to use other midi devices besides the triggerfinger,mpd or apc40.

My template has two channels and multi effects routed about, plus live synth capabilites. I use the clips as cue points more or less and dj like that for the time being. Once the apc40 gets purchased i will be adopting the ill.gates tempalte in full and just getting on with performing more exciting and versatile live sets.

blinx wrote:

Darkow wrote:Yeah I am trying to get my hands on the ll Gates templates.

If someone could just drop me a basic kind of template in the dl so that I can play around before buying ill gates templates i would reallly appreciate that?

Mediafire anyone>? :/

No he makes his living off this stuff man and 50 bucks isnt a big deal its def. worth the small investment i spent the 50 bucks last year then got all his new stuff (minus the ipad and apc40) templates as a free upgrade.

RandoRando wrote:Im still trying to wrap my head around what people mean by making your own template and develop your won style for ableton. Isnt is just triggering clips? How do you make your way of using ableton your own?

im still learning ableton, and im sure there is alot of features i dont know about

You can completley write your own applications based around Live using MAX4LIVE programming environment like monome(sp?), 7up, mlr5 are which allow for diverse looping and sampling abilites larger then just launching a clip once and a hwile (pretty sure pretyt lights used to use mlr5 heavily). Or you can work within the constraints of live and build your template using and abusing racks, midi routing stuff. If you watch his video he has built custom multi effect dj racks created the entire four turntable simulation channels and has eqing and filters all assigned to knobs in an intutive fashion so your not reading lcd readouts , punch in effects and whole new way to abuse the session view of ableton live dynamically without sounding like daft punk or deadmau5. His templates also take "perofrmance" pieces into mind allowing for you to control vocals,hits or even playing live synth lines while still haveing control over the track like a dj.

The ill.gates template really is worth the money for his punch in effects solution, he did alot of work on those and thats the part of the tempalte that people have trouble reconstructing or modifying to use other midi devices besides the triggerfinger,mpd or apc40.

My template has two channels and multi effects routed about, plus live synth capabilites. I use the clips as cue points more or less and dj like that for the time being. Once the apc40 gets purchased i will be adopting the ill.gates tempalte in full and just getting on with performing more exciting and versatile live sets.

Massive waste of money IMO. But then again, I can write my own patches in Max so I could careless about ill.gates mega perfomance all in one kit. If you can't route midi and set yourself up with your own ableton template and you have to buy one, you are in the wrong game.

collective wrote:

blinx wrote:

Darkow wrote:Yeah I am trying to get my hands on the ll Gates templates.

If someone could just drop me a basic kind of template in the dl so that I can play around before buying ill gates templates i would reallly appreciate that?

Mediafire anyone>? :/

No he makes his living off this stuff man and 50 bucks isnt a big deal its def. worth the small investment i spent the 50 bucks last year then got all his new stuff (minus the ipad and apc40) templates as a free upgrade.

RandoRando wrote:Im still trying to wrap my head around what people mean by making your own template and develop your won style for ableton. Isnt is just triggering clips? How do you make your way of using ableton your own?

im still learning ableton, and im sure there is alot of features i dont know about

You can completley write your own applications based around Live using MAX4LIVE programming environment like monome(sp?), 7up, mlr5 are which allow for diverse looping and sampling abilites larger then just launching a clip once and a hwile (pretty sure pretyt lights used to use mlr5 heavily). Or you can work within the constraints of live and build your template using and abusing racks, midi routing stuff. If you watch his video he has built custom multi effect dj racks created the entire four turntable simulation channels and has eqing and filters all assigned to knobs in an intutive fashion so your not reading lcd readouts , punch in effects and whole new way to abuse the session view of ableton live dynamically without sounding like daft punk or deadmau5. His templates also take "perofrmance" pieces into mind allowing for you to control vocals,hits or even playing live synth lines while still haveing control over the track like a dj.

The ill.gates template really is worth the money for his punch in effects solution, he did alot of work on those and thats the part of the tempalte that people have trouble reconstructing or modifying to use other midi devices besides the triggerfinger,mpd or apc40.

My template has two channels and multi effects routed about, plus live synth capabilites. I use the clips as cue points more or less and dj like that for the time being. Once the apc40 gets purchased i will be adopting the ill.gates tempalte in full and just getting on with performing more exciting and versatile live sets.

Massive waste of money IMO. But then again, I can write my own patches in Max so I could careless about ill.gates mega perfomance all in one kit. If you can't route midi and set yourself up with your own ableton template and you have to buy one, you are in the wrong game.

50 bucks def is massive amounts of money huh? and we better tell bassnectar, datsik, deadmau5, vadim, daft punk and everyone who uses abelton live with out writing or building there own programs that they all suck and are in the wrong game. No one is MAKING anyone have to buy one but with your mentatliity you better be building your own midi controllers and cables otherwise dude your in the wrong game IMO. lulz

not a fan of ableton djing using whole tracks, but split up into stems or parts and really getting in and doing things not possible on tunrtables/cdj then i like that.