Is the moneyshot thread too inaccessible for new producers?

[wub]

Serious question.


Not talking about dumbing down the Moneyshot thread or anything, but reading through it does seem to require a slightly more advanced grasp of production than otherwise. Would a 'diet' version be of more use to newer producers?

[deadly_habit]

i wouldn't say so, but some newbs may have to look up some terms and such to get a grasp of some of the techniques, but that should help em along at the same time

[Electric_Head]

Maybe a good idea would be to setup a 'diet' version explaining the process from the viewpoint of the beginner.
But it needs to be mentioned that all methods are merely guidelines.
Otherwise every statement is taken as gospel.

Deadly - how often do newbies take the time to learn nowadays?

[wub]

Fair enough - was thinking maybe editing a brief glossary of terms section might move things along a bit. Just thinking that the moneyshot thread as it stands could be a bit daunting.

[wub]

But it needs to be mentioned that all methods are merely guidelines.
Otherwise every statement is taken as gospel.

Yeah, I tried that approac with my 'rough guide to mastering in FL' thread and still got torn apart

[3rdeye]

I wouldn't say so - I teach production at University and have found that thread to be a great resource and help to my students who are mostly new to production.

(Macc is fully referenced academically btw )

The glossary of terms thing could be helpful though - good shout there imo.

[Electric_Head]

a glossary sounds like a decent idea.

[wub]

Ok, I'll see if I can find something online to use as a template, and then bastardise it from there.

3rdeye - seeing as you're a teacher and all, would you be okay if I ran it past you for tone/content once I've got a rough draft?

[bRRRz]

Yeah glossary would be awesome for total newbs.

[Mehlovich]

I think its great as it is.
When I first looked through it I didn't understand much which made me look further into things and google stuff etc.
And thats the way to go about it as you'll have to do that while learning

[deadly_habit]

Ok, I'll see if I can find something online to use as a template, and then bastardise it from there.

3rdeye - seeing as you're a teacher and all, would you be okay if I ran it past you for tone/content once I've got a rough draft?

http://www.soundonsound.com/information/Glossary.php

[wub]

Christ, way too indepth. Thanks though, make a good starting point.

[paradigm_x]

no disrespect personally wub but im sick of everyone everywhere dumbing every last damn thing to the lowest common denominator so captain FLtorrent can understand.

FFS youre supposed to learn, not be spoonfed. Its symptomatic of everything these days. Try trying something, or googling, or reading a damn book or magazine. So much information out there already.

I cant be arsed anymore i really cant. Fuck wiping peoples arses for em, struggle with your cracked massive and your pathetic attempt to make shit derivative dubstep track 1000000000.

chewie, quite eloquently, wrote;

Can't believe for a sec you just bought that without knowing what it does. Lame
Here's some advice - quit production, there's enough crack whore losers out there writing crap tunes already mate.

Someone on the grid was asking for somewhere to dl all the breaks in one place, because he could be arsed, you know, visiting 2 or more sites to find the breaks, nicely recorded and chopped and presented for dl. Its pathetic. Hardly beat mining.

15 years ago you had no internet at all and frankly far more inspired and interesting stuff happened as a result.

If you cant read moneyshot, google where appropriate, and ask sensible questions after trying, then give up.

/vent.

[wub]

no disrespect personally wub but im sick of everyone everywhere dumbing every last damn thing to the lowest common denominator so captain FLtorrent can understand.

Not talking about dumbing down

[wub]

I cant be arsed anymore i really cant. Fuck wiping peoples arses for em, struggle with your cracked massive and your pathetic attempt to make shit derivative dubstep track 1000000000.

That response could be applied to nearly every thread that gets started on here though.

[paradigm_x]

As i said man, not directed at you personally; I admire your efforts and attempts to improve things.

However, if not dumbed down, then what? How do you proposed to simplify it? Macc's already tried to explain things as simply as the concepts will allow. Thats something hes always been good at

And what do you hope to gain from it? More noob producers on board, or less stupid questions?

I cant be arsed anymore i really cant. Fuck wiping peoples arses for em, struggle with your cracked massive and your pathetic attempt to make shit derivative dubstep track 1000000000.

That response could be applied to nearly every thread that gets started on here though.

Quite.

Im really happy to help people who are like; im trying to do x, ive done x, y and z, and got some interesting results, but not quite what im after, ive read a, b and c and although ive learned, im still a bit confused about d...

But its like;

what do i use for intros, ive got albino, komplete 5-8, omnisphere, rhino zebra and ACE but need an intro synth.

Sorry, its been on my mind a while.

Peas.

[deadly_habit]

ben

[wub]

And what do you hope to gain from it? More noob producers on board, or less stupid questions?

Less stupid threads, tbh. I'm cautiously aware that this month's CM is probably going to make things worse in terms of the glut of innane questions, and whilst "go read the moneyshot" thread is fine and dandy, it might not necessarily be the best thing.

I'm also toying with the idea of creating a Mastering/Mixdown sticky thread, which holds links to other threads that discuss the subject. This could then be broken down into beginner, advanced & expert sections, so would cater for all tastes. There must be a couple of basic intro threads to mastering and mixing if I dig back through here, just a case of finding the links and collating them, the same way we did with the Bass/Skrillex threads.

Im really happy to help people who are like; im trying to do x, ive done x, y and z, and got some interesting results, but not quite what im after, ive read a, b and c and although ive learned, im still a bit confused about d...

But its like;

what do i use for intros, ive got albino, komplete 5-8, omnisphere, rhino zebra and ACE but need an intro synth.

Sorry, its been on my mind a while.

Peas.

I fully appreciate where you're coming from. As you know, I'm a big subscriber to the BMT way of thinking about these things. "If the Internet didn't exist, how would I find the answer to this question?" is always at the forefront of my mind, but tbh the landscape is changing, and telling people to go away and figure it out by themselves when society is indoctrinating them to have EVERYTHING at their fingertips just isn't going to cut it anymore, sorry to say.

[paradigm_x]

[grandad alert]

I know. When i started, i had a second hand atari (no manual), a peavey workstation and a 'live' mixer with dodgy channels and too much noise. learnt a shit load on it, in a vacuum. Got an sh101, no manual, and spent hours learning subtractive synthesis. etc.

These days, people have free or dirt cheap complete studios in a box, video tutorials, a wealth of information about anything under the sun, and yet it seems to be going backwards.

[/grandad alert]

[sunny_b_uk]

no disrespect personally wub but im sick of everyone everywhere dumbing every last damn thing to the lowest common denominator so captain FLtorrent can understand.

FFS youre supposed to learn, not be spoonfed. Its symptomatic of everything these days. Try trying something, or googling, or reading a damn book or magazine. So much information out there already.

chewie, quite eloquently, wrote;

Can't believe for a sec you just bought that without knowing what it does. Lame
Here's some advice - quit production, there's enough crack whore losers out there writing crap tunes already mate.

Someone on the grid was asking for somewhere to dl all the breaks in one place, because he could be arsed, you know, visiting 2 or more sites to find the breaks, nicely recorded and chopped and presented for dl. Its pathetic. Hardly beat mining.

15 years ago you had no internet at all and frankly far more inspired and interesting stuff happened as a result.

If you cant read moneyshot, google where appropriate, and ask sensible questions after trying, then give up.

/vent.

i totally agree and lmao i remember when chewie slated the guy that wrote "hey i got URS Pro Strip but i duno what it does or how to use it"
i really think there's no need to simplify the moneyshot thread because from what i remember theres a couple of really straight forward mixdown guides on the net.. i originally learned how to mixdown just from reading the well explained topics on the homepage of http://www.tweakheadz.com
im sure theres other places with great dumbed down info on how to mixdown/master. trust me i was a happy n00b at the time and read everything i could on that site. although the moneyshot thread contains other helpful tips from macc etc, i think supplying the n00bs with sites like tweakheadz and other ones will educate them on general mixdowns (even though google should honestly be the easier place for n00bs to find this kind of info lol)
if the n00b wants to learn more then they will seek further for the info and will actually be bothered to read the moneyshot thread. its down to how hungry the person really is to learn what they can.