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I'm having a little trouble comprehending how this works..sub bass is obviously an essential part of dubstep, but my monitors and headphones only cover so much of the sound spectrum. Do you all just have your sub bass hitting up to 100 hz so as you can hear it on your home systems? 200 hz? For some reason Ive been under the impression it needs to be cut below that, but when I do I literally can't even hear it anymore haha. I'm talking about the seemingly toneless, internal organ rattling, sub bass.. This is a rather pathetic wall that I'm trying to wrap my head around.

It should be hitting at 50 Hz for the note f, at least thats what I use. Check on a spectrum analyzer to see that it is and make sure its just a bit quieter than your bass. If you do that you should have a good sub bass even if you cant hear it. You can also put some light distortion on it if its a pure sine wave. This will help it fill out the higher sub range and make it more audible.

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my sub base is. 1 OSC in massive set to -24 steps and the Sustain all the way up wiht Attack just enough not to click all the time. Then i make it monophon and add some portamento/glide to taste. I use an eq to cut everything out above 90hzish, allowing for a gently sloping cut, nothing to dramatic unless you want eq coloration. Then i add a imiter with a few db added gain to help even the volume situaiton out across different notes.

use a spectral anylyzer to make sure your sub bass is setting/hitting in the 20hz-90hz range. Even though you dont hear it/feel it on your monitors it will still be there in the end. It would be harder to mix the subbass in but start at around -12db and you shouldnt be to far away form a nice sub bass.

Buy a sub?

wub wrote:Buy a sub?

Although it's not much of a suggestion, it's actually the best one. Sure you can mix it without being able to hear it, but if anything, go out and pick up a pair of headphones. Even the cheaper ones will at least give you the ability to hear your sub frequencies. If you couple that with a bit of gain structuring knowledge and you can do fairly well for yourself. Read the moneyshot thread stickied on the top of this forum as well as Legendary's subbass tutorial. After reading those you should have a pretty good idea of where you want your sub frequencies to be hitting and how loud they should be to start it off. If you get the cheap headphones though, don't rely on them for mixing accuracy, just use them so you can hear your sub as you work on it.

oWLinDaylight wrote:It should be hitting at 50 Hz for the note f, at least thats what I use..

Your at g#...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano_key_frequencies

40hz is the sweetspot though, your right about the low f's

Teknicyde wrote:

oWLinDaylight wrote:It should be hitting at 50 Hz for the note f, at least thats what I use..

Your at g#...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano_key_frequencies

40hz is the sweetspot though, your right about the low f's

You are correct. I was reading the wavelength on the chart I was looking at haha

You can try distorting your sub when working on it so you have an idea of the pitch. You won't feel it, however.

wub wrote:Buy a sub?

I was told (could be wrong) that a sub (as in a devoted sub, not the sub on studio monitors) is really only important if you're working with stuff under 40 hz which is right around the cutoff for what is audible, and that the area where you can really feel the bass the most is around 70 hz. I pretty much roll off everthing under 40 hz anyways. Am I wrong in any of this (legit question here, not trying to be an ass).

cmgoodman1226 wrote:

wub wrote:Buy a sub?

I was told (could be wrong) that a sub (as in a devoted sub, not the sub on studio monitors) is really only important if you're working with stuff under 40 hz which is right around the cutoff for what is audible, and that the area where you can really feel the bass the most is around 70 hz. I pretty much roll off everthing under 40 hz anyways. Am I wrong in any of this (legit question here, not trying to be an ass).

...Depends on the system you were playing your tunes at.
If your tunes are played on systems with great Subs (Soundsystems,Dubstep Clubs,Good Carhifi,....)
You usually can go lower than 40 hz.
70hz is a bit high for a subbass in my oppinion, but surely you can feel 70hz really good.
But it makes more fun,if you get hit by 30-50 hz with some extreme spl....Gives you that typical dubstep "underwater" feeling.

I can only say, take a spectrum (for example Voxengo SPAN,its free) and analize your fav. Track in your sequenzer!

..Btt

my monitors cant hit freqs. under 45 hz, so i use headphones to have an idea. (Good headphones recommended)

A sub will be my next investition!...Headphones give you an idea,but the feeling is still not there.

If there is no other possibility i would set my subbass up with spectral analysis. (Like mentioned above)

SUB: anything below like 80hz - hi pass @35 this is to be felt, not heard. trust yourself that it's there. get a spectrum analyzer if you have trust issues

Mids: overtones of your sub. what people actually hear in the "sub" is usually overtones, produced by another synth, or sample, due to lots of layering. your actual sub (which is a pure sine btw) does not need to ever be at 200hz.

Kick: hits anywhere above 100hz, 120 is deffo the 'chest thumping effect" - layer this to all hell - get creative.

also when looking at a spectral analyzer, be aware of the fletcher munson curve (equal loudness contour). Your sub will look a lot louder than your high frequencies, but it will sound properly mixed. hopefully this helps someone.

subs hit at 40 to (roughly) 100 hz. it should be peaking at (roughly) -9dB.

EVERY TIME.

Thanks for all the input guys, I think I've got it dialed in pretty well..but this thread now has me questioning my mixing/mastering knowledge. I've been doing a ton of research around the internet and keep coming across pretty similar recommendations for different instruments to be located at in the mix..i.e: sub bass <80, kick 100-150, and so one. I've also been seeing a lot of different decibel levels such as kicks and snares at -12, bass at -14, chords, -16, pads -18, hats -20, and so on. I know these are matters of opinion/guidelines, but is there any chance someone could point me in the direction of where I can read more about this in a concise graph and/or article? Thanks again

I've heard people say many different things with regards to volume of individual elements in the mix - I really play it by ear, and I suggest you do the same. You'll know if something is too loud or quiet - mixdowns are more aesthetic than technical I think - but thats after you've gotten to the point where you can put the technicalities behind you and just make music.

misk wrote:I've heard people say many different things with regards to volume of individual elements in the mix - I really play it by ear, and I suggest you do the same. You'll know if something is too loud or quiet - mixdowns are more aesthetic than technical I think - but thats after you've gotten to the point where you can put the technicalities behind you and just make music.

while there are minor variations in levels for mixdowns, they pretty much all follow the same guidelines. unless you're producing on a CLUB system, then it's going to be difficult to know exactly how hard things will hit - unless you follow the guidelines. that's how to be consistent, and not find out that you fucked up your levels while playing a gig.

if you don't plan on playing the track on a club system then you can get away with being a bit more creative with the levels.


on that note, that's happened to me. one of my tracks had the kick WAY too loud, which sounded fine when i did the mixdown on my headphones... until it was being played on two 18" powered JBL subs.

musicandme wrote:Thanks for all the input guys, I think I've got it dialed in pretty well..but this thread now has me questioning my mixing/mastering knowledge. I've been doing a ton of research around the internet and keep coming across pretty similar recommendations for different instruments to be located at in the mix..i.e: sub bass <80, kick 100-150, and so one. I've also been seeing a lot of different decibel levels such as kicks and snares at -12, bass at -14, chords, -16, pads -18, hats -20, and so on. I know these are matters of opinion/guidelines, but is there any chance someone could point me in the direction of where I can read more about this in a concise graph and/or article? Thanks again

I generally follow this in the beginning. Once I get something going that I'm starting to like I'll go through and bring the levels down to these levels. This is to allow for some room to work as I start bringing in more sounds. Eventually these levels could end up changing and sometimes they end up being just right and I won't need to ever touch the levels for certain channels again. All that really depends on where the track goes though. It's really never the same thing for each track I do. Use it as a guideline, but in the end you'll just have to play it by ear and try things as you go.

The people talking about subs up to 100hz... In my personal opinion that kind of shiz is a no-no. First and foremost that is bang on the frequency you want your kicks at, a deep chest shaking thud. Secondly on a good system, the deep sub's (at about 40-50odd hz) in where your looking to be for a solid chest rattler. Not to mention it makes your music a lot easier to mix and sound clean.

Also if I am not mistaken, I always thought your Sub should be at about -12db, perhaps -10 or as a general rule about 2db lower than your drums.

B-Frank wrote:The people talking about subs up to 100hz... In my personal opinion that kind of shiz is a no-no. First and foremost that is bang on the frequency you want your kicks at, a deep chest shaking thud. Secondly on a good system, the deep sub's (at about 40-50odd hz) in where your looking to be for a solid chest rattler. Not to mention it makes your music a lot easier to mix and sound clean.

Also if I am not mistaken, I always thought your Sub should be at about -12db, perhaps -10 or as a general rule about 2db lower than your drums.

The subs should be hitting at the 40-50 hz range, but those people were talking about lowpassing the sub at 80-100. Your right about the kicks peaking there, which is why i usually don't lowpass above 90, but you also want your sub frequencies to take up everything below your drums. And you have to remember that the 80-100Hz is where the filter starts to decrease the volume, so if you high pass your drums at 100 hz there's still frequencies below that making it through the filter. The other reason that you want the cutoff to be around 90 is to prevent your bass from getting into the sub frequencies. I usually pick the sub bass cutoff based on the best high pass cutoff for my bass synth, and then filter the drums to match.

i have the same issue cuz i can't hear my sub bass at home. my monitors are great, my problem is im just sitting too close. I wander over to the corner where bass traps live and its like the sub lifts me off the ground its too powerful. I have to find a balance and attempt to monitor from the corner here and there. Then it doesn't help that i've never played on a good system and my car has no subs at the moment... so it makes barely any difference but knowing its there i listen for it and can feel it underneath everything

that being said i just play a sine or an 808 and don't filter it whatsoever.
truth is i could be making really horrible subs and i'd have no idea. my hifi's are alright but the woofer is tiny and i just don't trust that its showing me everything whats there.
one of these days i gotta toss one of y'all a dub whose got a good system and you can tell me whats going on in the bottom frequencies
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