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Ok so I've got the basic synthesis of it down, I can create pretty much any type of wobble that I need to get a good bassline going, however this is where I start to become unstuck, I really can't get the heavy sub needed, or just the absolute wideness of their basslines! I've tried chorus phasing, layering, nothing seems to work I am working in massive so this could be the problem, however I'd love to know if you guys have anything that could help

This isn't the best but it gives you the basic idea, and i've got feeling Badklaat use's massive, if your talking about the famed Head top bassline, that's just different oscillating sounds at different lfo rates, so one sound is 1/12 and the other 1/8, the hard part is getting the right tone of the sound so it doesnt sound metallic and shit, also the expo wave forms work well!

badklaat uses reason bud. try using albino, thats a bit better for kromestar type sounds in my experience.

I do all my dnb stuff in albino, so I'll give it a go, fyi all the mentioned use reason for their basses, I have tried myself to recreate sounds in reason but I really can't get my head around synthesis in reason That tut is a good start for the sound design, but I'm already getting much better sounds than that they just aren't fat enough :L heres an example of something I did a while back: http://soundcloud.com/owenedwards/one-day-earjax-remix (feel free to listen to the whole thing but skip to 1:42 for the wubs )

yeah pretty sure Krome uses reason. Nice massive tutorial though

Recon some generous badman should do a heavy reason malstrom tutorial

Honestly I've been waiting for a decent reason tut for about a year now ! Funty and genetix also use reason and their basslines are too fucking sick, how are they getting nastyness out of these synths!?!?!

Earjax wrote:Ok so I've got the basic synthesis of it down, I can create pretty much any type of wobble that I need to get a good bassline going, however this is where I start to become unstuck, I really can't get the heavy sub needed, or just the absolute wideness of their basslines! I've tried chorus phasing, layering, nothing seems to work I am working in massive so this could be the problem, however I'd love to know if you guys have anything that could help

Try adding some delay (< 300ms) to both left and right. This will widen your synth in the mix.

First time i watched Funt's masterclass i was shitting a brick, thought he was gunna let us all in on how the fuck he managed to make so vexd in reason, but tbf he didn't show us his secrets, but then again i wouldn't either, there must be some way these people are doing this... :'(

The fatness of their basslines isn't really too much to do with the widness of the synth sound in my opinion. It's the relationship with the sub.

B-Frank wrote:The fatness of their basslines isn't really too much to do with the widness of the synth sound in my opinion. It's the relationship with the sub.

THIS!!!! I thought this as well, but how the fuck do they manage to get it so tight? especially in reason where they're spectrum analyser is fucking awful

How bout a cmb patch posting? Anyone? I have one cool waiko like squishy sound that you might all like? But some badman should post some requake biz for sure.

its not that hard in reason, iv managed to make some in massive but its kind of hard for these kind of basses. just play with subtraktor and the fm capabilities + use the band pass filter.
next use a bit of distortion + the "body" filters in scream 4 with the RESO pretty high and move the SCALE around. automate a few parameters and there isn't much else too it. try it

If you're using massive its well easy to get your sub sounding as phat as your mid bass. It's just layering and making sure the sub and mid bass do the same thing and echo each other. its fairly simple tbh

1. Make your mid bass in Massive, arrange it and automate until you're happy with your LFO's etc
2. highpass at around 100hz, or leaving enough room for your kick drum to hit
3. Open up another Massive, init patch and create a pure sine wave, using only 1 oscillator. Make sure the wavetable knob is all the way to the left so its a pure sine. drop the octave so its hitting in the sub range
4. lowpass it at around 90hz, or leaving enough EQ space for your kick (my kicks tend to hit 90-100hz)
5. Assign the LFO to the Amp knob on your sub osc
6. Copy your automated LFO pattern from your mid bass to the LFO pattern on the volume of your sub, so the amp on your sub is wobbling exactly the same as the filter cutoff on your mid bass

If you've done this right you will simply have a sub thats wobbling the same as your mid bass, it makes it sound fat, heavy and like a combined, single instrument. I process my sub a bit more as well, I might boost the EQ range between 20hz-90z by making a big shelf. I might also run it through a tube amp to give it some warmth and higher harmonics so its sounds nice on shittier systems too.

The thing about massive is where you can program mental LFOs using performer is that it makes it so easy to have your sub doing the same thing. you can just save the pattern and load it up for your sub as well. or if you're doing the automation in your DAW you can just copy the same automation pattern onto your sub track

Dublicious wrote:Recon some generous badman should do a heavy reason malstrom tutorial

Why do people seem to think that it's all malstrom?

I've made some very fat requakey sounds from sqaure wave in the NN19

Sparxy wrote:If you're using massive its well easy to get your sub sounding as phat as your mid bass. It's just layering and making sure the sub and mid bass do the same thing and echo each other. its fairly simple tbh

1. Make your mid bass in Massive, arrange it and automate until you're happy with your LFO's etc
2. highpass at around 100hz, or leaving enough room for your kick drum to hit
3. Open up another Massive, init patch and create a pure sine wave, using only 1 oscillator. Make sure the wavetable knob is all the way to the left so its a pure sine. drop the octave so its hitting in the sub range
4. lowpass it at around 90hz, or leaving enough EQ space for your kick (my kicks tend to hit 90-100hz)
5. Assign the LFO to the Amp knob on your sub osc
6. Copy your automated LFO pattern from your mid bass to the LFO pattern on the volume of your sub, so the amp on your sub is wobbling exactly the same as the filter cutoff on your mid bass

If you've done this right you will simply have a sub thats wobbling the same as your mid bass, it makes it sound fat, heavy and like a combined, single instrument. I process my sub a bit more as well, I might boost the EQ range between 20hz-90z by making a big shelf. I might also run it through a tube amp to give it some warmth and higher harmonics so its sounds nice on shittier systems too.

The thing about massive is where you can program mental LFOs using performer is that it makes it so easy to have your sub doing the same thing. you can just save the pattern and load it up for your sub as well. or if you're doing the automation in your DAW you can just copy the same automation pattern onto your sub track

yh already do this, talking more about processing of the subs nd mids after all the synthesis is done I think

Sparxy wrote:If you're using massive its well easy to get your sub sounding as phat as your mid bass. It's just layering and making sure the sub and mid bass do the same thing and echo each other. its fairly simple tbh

1. Make your mid bass in Massive, arrange it and automate until you're happy with your LFO's etc
2. highpass at around 100hz, or leaving enough room for your kick drum to hit
3. Open up another Massive, init patch and create a pure sine wave, using only 1 oscillator. Make sure the wavetable knob is all the way to the left so its a pure sine. drop the octave so its hitting in the sub range
4. lowpass it at around 90hz, or leaving enough EQ space for your kick (my kicks tend to hit 90-100hz)
5. Assign the LFO to the Amp knob on your sub osc
6. Copy your automated LFO pattern from your mid bass to the LFO pattern on the volume of your sub, so the amp on your sub is wobbling exactly the same as the filter cutoff on your mid bass

If you've done this right you will simply have a sub thats wobbling the same as your mid bass, it makes it sound fat, heavy and like a combined, single instrument. I process my sub a bit more as well, I might boost the EQ range between 20hz-90z by making a big shelf. I might also run it through a tube amp to give it some warmth and higher harmonics so its sounds nice on shittier systems too.

The thing about massive is where you can program mental LFOs using performer is that it makes it so easy to have your sub doing the same thing. you can just save the pattern and load it up for your sub as well. or if you're doing the automation in your DAW you can just copy the same automation pattern onto your sub track

pretty sure you've literally just explained how to add sub bass to a track.
I wouldn't low pass the sub bass either if you're trying to make it sound fat. Not that the filter does much anyway. The only thing that should really be penetrating into the sub bass range would be the kick drum and you can make space for yourself with side chain compression.

badklaat and requake tunes often can be quite minimal with percussion and drums too, which allows more space for the midrange to take up

Earjax wrote: yh already do this, talking more about processing of the subs nd mids after all the synthesis is done I think

Ok well perhaps I interpreted your query wrong. For me the processing of the sub is a matter of taste and I explained what I do to get it sounding "phat" anyway, perhaps that might help you. The post effects for your mids are also a matter of taste and need to fit in with the context of your tracks... what specifically do you mean? Panning and stereo effects help me widen any sounds lacking that stereo feel.

MoonUnit wrote: pretty sure you've literally just explained how to add sub bass to a track.
I wouldn't low pass the sub bass either if you're trying to make it sound fat. Not that the filter does much anyway. The only thing that should really be penetrating into the sub bass range would be the kick drum and you can make space for yourself with side chain compression.

Erm, not really, I explained how to get a sub that echoes your mid bass. Which apparently no one cared about anyway, so I mis-understood what people were looking for. "Adding sub bass to a track" lol that could mean anything and could be as simple as just putting a straight sine wave that doesn't have any movement.
Why wouldn't you low pass the sub? The only reason I do it is as a failsafe, just to make sure its not interfering with my kick. To be honest there shouldn't really be any harmonics much above 90hz otherwise its not really a sub is it? having said that, I do add some harmonics by running it through a tube and making it sound warmer.

The kick shouldn't be interfering with your sub at all. If it goes that low, then maybe you should consider the kick actually being the sub element in your track? Side chain compression, in my opinion shouldn't be used as a technical tool to make room (in most cases). It is poor practice and means you aren't EQing properly. If you are doing this, then you should tune your kick so its hitting at a harmoic frequency in relation to your sub, otherwise shit will sound out of tune as well. There are times when sidechaining is used as a fucking sick creational tool though, check out Claire Macguire - Ain't Nobody (Breakage Remix) to learn how you SHOULD be using side chain compression!

all this talk about "fat" subs is somewhat ridiculous anyway... a straight sine is the most powerful a sub can be. it just means on rubbish systems it might not be reproduced very well. Most producers make their subs sound "fatter" by either adding some harmoics, like compression and running it through a tube, maybe saturation OR by playing their sub at specific notes that hit certain frequency ranges that tend to resonate well with humans. Try it - load a straight, plain, pure sine in your synth and play up the keyboard. you'll notice certain notes seem to hit harder and shake your chestplate more than others. Personally I find G is a note where the sub shakes me. Write your tune in these keys and your sub will magically sound fatter

Sparxy sorry man we're not trying to have a go at your techniques Everyone has their way! However just to help you out from what I've learnt about mixing low end, your kick should definitely have a decent amount of low end in the 30-50 hz region, however and this WILL interfere with your sub, however there's nothing wrong with that happening as long as its not clipping, and if it is, your levels are too high. Also subs will sound as if they are resonating on certain notes more, this could be because of a lot of things: you've EQ'd it in the wrong place or too thinly, you have a lowpass with resonance on, or the shape of your room is making some notes resonate more (sound louder). Simple way to solve this: don't use lowpasses (unless they have a slider for q factor, which should be all the way if it does) use EQ instead. Also limiting and compression are essential when mixing sub as it is a sure way to make sure all notes are hitting just as hard. If you don't believe me, some of this advice has come directly from the badman klaat himself.

On a separate note, the tune in your sig is great man!!! Htf did you get your growl?!?