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Mixing ..
Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:45 pm
by MKRUGGER
Hey, I've got a quick question!
I'm working on a track right now, I've got the Intro & Drop basically complete, and I'm feeling it..
Now I'm mixing it, so nothing is clipping! .. When I have the sliders on the tracks turned up, none of them are clipping, but the Master is clipping, so I turned them WAY down For instance, my kick is at around -16 Db now, and everything else is down low too.. And now my Master isn't clipping, it's just about touching the Red zone, not like it was before though..
I'm just curious to know if I'm going about this right, having all my sliders turned way down, like mid and below.. Is that correct? I mean, it still sounds decent when I export it,
And I believe it came out even quieter when I exported it, when I was clipping before.. But now I exported it with no clipping, and I think it sounds cleaner, and louder?
This is confusing me a bit.. Maybe someone could post a picture of their mixer on a finished track? .. I'm sure it'd look different per person / track.. But yeah..
I'm also not using any limiters, I feel like they fuck the sound up, I'm not a big fan of compressors either, so I just lower the mix volume in instead
..
By the way, I didn't touch the Master slider either.. Didn't think I should..
Edit; I compared the two just now.. The one Mixed well, and low, sounds just a tad lower than the one with the sliders up higher on the mixing tracks, and the master clipping.
I just don't know if turning all the mixing channels down so low is the right route to take? It sounds fine, but is it correct?
The Snare is punchier on the one that Clips also :/ .. Bahh... Or maybe it's just louder o.O I don't fucking know. lol
Re: Mixing ..
Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:03 pm
by blinx
Have you read Macc's advice in the gain structuring thread a.k.a. the MoneyShot Thread. It explains alot of mixing technique/theory and really took me to the next level in regards to producing music and mixing as a whole.
I have a feeling your track needed better eqing instead of moving all your faders down. As a reference here are some very general values for elements (this is not a stead fast rule i know blah blah) just to give you an idea of where i ballpark my peak values at.
Drum buss group -10db (I eq everything out under 100hz ish)
Kick -10db
Snare -9db
clap -10db
hats -16db
rides -20db
crash -20db
SubBass -12bd (i eq everything out over 100hz ish)
TopBass -18db (I eq everything out under 100hz ish)
vocals -16db (I eq everything out under 100hz ish)
Lead synths -18db (I eq everything out under 100hz ish)
pads -23db (I eq everything out under 100hz ish)
riser/fx -20db (I eq everything out under 100hz ish)
Re: Mixing ..
Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:58 pm
by MKRUGGER
blinx wrote:Have you read Macc's advice in the gain structuring thread a.k.a. the MoneyShot Thread. It explains alot of mixing technique/theory and really took me to the next level in regards to producing music and mixing as a whole.
I have a feeling your track needed better eqing instead of moving all your faders down. As a reference here are some very general values for elements (this is not a stead fast rule i know blah blah) just to give you an idea of where i ballpark my peak values at.
Drum buss group -10db (I eq everything out under 100hz ish)
Kick -10db
Snare -9db
clap -10db
hats -16db
rides -20db
crash -20db
SubBass -12bd (i eq everything out over 100hz ish)
TopBass -18db (I eq everything out under 100hz ish)
vocals -16db (I eq everything out under 100hz ish)
Lead synths -18db (I eq everything out under 100hz ish)
pads -23db (I eq everything out under 100hz ish)
riser/fx -20db (I eq everything out under 100hz ish)
That actually helped a lot!
Still not perfect, but It's getting there :]
Yes, I've read the Moneyshot thread, maybe I need to go through it again
Also, are those values where you'd put your Sliders, or where the level itself would hit? o.O That part confuses me!
Re: Mixing ..
Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:06 pm
by B-Frank
blinx wrote:Have you read Macc's advice in the gain structuring thread a.k.a. the MoneyShot Thread. It explains alot of mixing technique/theory and really took me to the next level in regards to producing music and mixing as a whole.
I have a feeling your track needed better eqing instead of moving all your faders down. As a reference here are some very general values for elements (this is not a stead fast rule i know blah blah) just to give you an idea of where i ballpark my peak values at.
Drum buss group -10db (I eq everything out under 100hz ish)
Kick -10db
Snare -9db
clap -10db
hats -16db
rides -20db
crash -20db
SubBass -12bd (i eq everything out over 100hz ish)
TopBass -18db (I eq everything out under 100hz ish)
vocals -16db (I eq everything out under 100hz ish)
Lead synths -18db (I eq everything out under 100hz ish)
pads -23db (I eq everything out under 100hz ish)
riser/fx -20db (I eq everything out under 100hz ish)
That is quite a good way of putting it for the newbies on here you know. Wish I read that back when I was trying to learn how to mix down a track ha.
Re: Mixing ..
Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:10 pm
by MKRUGGER
MKRUGGER wrote:
Also, are those values where you'd put your Sliders, or where the level itself would hit? o.O That part confuses me!
Re: Mixing ..
Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:12 pm
by B-Frank
MKRUGGER wrote:MKRUGGER wrote:
Also, are those values where you'd put your Sliders, or where the level itself would hit? o.O That part confuses me!
Forget where you put the sliders... Imagine you hadn''t seen that. Go by the the level of the actual sound.
Re: Mixing ..
Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:14 pm
by MKRUGGER
B-Frank wrote:MKRUGGER wrote:MKRUGGER wrote:
Also, are those values where you'd put your Sliders, or where the level itself would hit? o.O That part confuses me!
Forget where you put the sliders... Imagine you hadn''t seen that. Go by the the level of the actual sound.
Okay so the value of the sliders doesn't exactly matter, you just pay attention to the level the sound peaks at? And to adjust that level, we just move the sliders, correct? But the actually value of the slider is irrelevant?
Please tell me I'm right, lol
Re: Mixing ..
Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:21 pm
by B-Frank
MKRUGGER wrote:B-Frank wrote:MKRUGGER wrote:MKRUGGER wrote:
Also, are those values where you'd put your Sliders, or where the level itself would hit? o.O That part confuses me!
Forget where you put the sliders... Imagine you hadn''t seen that. Go by the the level of the actual sound.
Okay so the value of the sliders doesn't exactly matter, you just pay attention to the level the sound peaks at? And to adjust that level, we just move the sliders, correct? But the actually value of the slider is irrelevant?
Please tell me I'm right, lol
Whatever value your sound is peaking at is your physical value if you think about it.
Re: Mixing ..
Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:31 pm
by MKRUGGER
B-Frank wrote:MKRUGGER wrote:B-Frank wrote:MKRUGGER wrote:MKRUGGER wrote:
Also, are those values where you'd put your Sliders, or where the level itself would hit? o.O That part confuses me!
Forget where you put the sliders... Imagine you hadn''t seen that. Go by the the level of the actual sound.
Okay so the value of the sliders doesn't exactly matter, you just pay attention to the level the sound peaks at? And to adjust that level, we just move the sliders, correct? But the actually value of the slider is irrelevant?
Please tell me I'm right, lol
Whatever value your sound is peaking at is your physical value if you think about it.
Alright, I think I kind of understand now
Re: Mixing ..
Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:00 pm
by 123kidd
What you want to do is first set the level of your kick. Then snare and bass. I consider these the foundations. Once you get these down the rest of your elements should fall into place from there. Use your ears and let them be the judge.
Re: Mixing ..
Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:18 am
by MKRUGGER
I'm noticing that if I lower the volume on my Drum Bus, I loose most / all of the punch in my Kick? :/ I'm trying everything here, but I can't get anything decent, without Clipping on the Master, GAH -_- ..
I have it as Drum in and Drum out, should I make those even volumes, by the way? ..
Re: Mixing ..
Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:38 am
by almostskate100
B-Frank wrote:MKRUGGER wrote:B-Frank wrote:MKRUGGER wrote:MKRUGGER wrote:
Also, are those values where you'd put your Sliders, or where the level itself would hit? o.O That part confuses me!
Forget where you put the sliders... Imagine you hadn''t seen that. Go by the the level of the actual sound.
Okay so the value of the sliders doesn't exactly matter, you just pay attention to the level the sound peaks at? And to adjust that level, we just move the sliders, correct? But the actually value of the slider is irrelevant?
Please tell me I'm right, lol
Whatever value your sound is peaking at is your physical value if you think about it.
I've actually been wondering about this too -- when I mix, I generally start with my kick at -12 dB before any processing. However, after saturation / compression / parallel compression on the drum bus / other effects, the kick ends up peaking past -12 dB...like, -9 or -10 maybe? Is this normal? Or are you suppose to put a limiter on the sound at the end so that it never peaks above -12?
Re: Mixing ..
Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:09 am
by jrisreal
almostskate100 wrote:B-Frank wrote:MKRUGGER wrote:B-Frank wrote:MKRUGGER wrote:
Okay so the value of the sliders doesn't exactly matter, you just pay attention to the level the sound peaks at? And to adjust that level, we just move the sliders, correct? But the actually value of the slider is irrelevant?
Please tell me I'm right, lol
Whatever value your sound is peaking at is your physical value if you think about it.
I've actually been wondering about this too -- when I mix, I generally start with my kick at -12 dB before any processing. However, after saturation / compression / parallel compression on the drum bus / other effects, the kick ends up peaking past -12 dB...like, -9 or -10 maybe? Is this normal? Or are you suppose to put a limiter on the sound at the end so that it never peaks above -12?
Yes, it's normal. Just turn down the fader until the kick is hitting at -12 again.
Re: Mixing ..
Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:40 pm
by MKRUGGER
MKRUGGER wrote:I'm noticing that if I lower the volume on my Drum Bus, I loose most / all of the punch in my Kick? :/ I'm trying everything here, but I can't get anything decent, without Clipping on the Master, GAH -_- ..
I have it as Drum in and Drum out, should I make those even volumes, by the way? ..
This ^
Re: Mixing ..
Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:22 pm
by blinx
Yeah sorry i should have labeled that those rough values are where my elements are Peaking.
I run multiband-compression on my drum bus using ozone4 so that helps me get punch and kick and volume with out peaking meters.
Re: Mixing ..
Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:43 pm
by MKRUGGER
blinx wrote:Yeah sorry i should have labeled that those rough values are where my elements are Peaking.
I run multiband-compression on my drum bus using ozone4 so that helps me get punch and kick and volume with out peaking meters.
Yeah, sine my last posts I've figured it out a bit more, and it's actually sounding pretty tidy now!
Thanks for the tip ;]
Re: Mixing ..
Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:56 pm
by djbmc
i'm trying to learn to mix with no limiters, so that little chart above will definitely help, i guess if none of your individual faders are clipping but your master is clipping by maybe 1dB, just turn the master fader down a bit.
Re: Mixing ..
Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:59 pm
by Sharmaji
MKRUGGER wrote:I'm noticing that if I lower the volume on my Drum Bus, I loose most / all of the punch in my Kick?
turn your speakers up.
Re: Mixing ..
Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 6:26 pm
by MKRUGGER
Sharmaji wrote:MKRUGGER wrote:I'm noticing that if I lower the volume on my Drum Bus, I loose most / all of the punch in my Kick?
turn your speakers up.
Fuckin' A!
Re: Mixing ..
Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 7:05 pm
by Kaslo
Make sure you don't have any gainers/utilities/compressor makeups buggering things up along the way, too. I've chased faders for hours on numerous occasions only to realize I had the makeup gain on a compressor or the volume of a drum rack module set way too high.
But yeah, you're going to end up with the faders all way down - think of headroom as a pie, I think Macc said this in his moneyshot thread. You can't have every track taking all the pie. Each can only take up a little slice of it.