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"Cut everything below 30hz for more headroom"
Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:12 pm
by ketamine
True?
Question: Should we do it on each individual track, or once, on the final Stereo-Out?
Re: "Cut everything below 30hz for more headroom"
Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:14 pm
by dj nation
dunno if its true but ive started doing it pretty much on everything anyways
Re: "Cut everything below 30hz for more headroom"
Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:15 pm
by ketamine
dj nation wrote:dunno if its true but ive started doing it pretty much on everything anyways
I probably will too. But let me ask, do you do it on the individual tracks? (that's a lot of inserts), or on your final mix?
Re: "Cut everything below 30hz for more headroom"
Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:20 pm
by wub
TBH, I've done this on some tracks and not done it on some other tracks, and I've never noticed any real difference. A pro mastering engineer may well tell me otherwise, but the systems I've played tunes on so far have yet to demonstrate this to me.
Re: "Cut everything below 30hz for more headroom"
Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:50 pm
by MassAphekt
I highpass brickwall every track with ozone 5, I noticed in my final mixdowns the activity below 30hz is so minimal, I notice it creates a difference
Re: "Cut everything below 30hz for more headroom"
Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:02 pm
by Glyphex
Unless you have a sub that plays 2hz, It is fun to watch the speaker move! :p
Re: "Cut everything below 30hz for more headroom"
Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:19 pm
by dj nation
ketamine wrote:dj nation wrote:dunno if its true but ive started doing it pretty much on everything anyways
I probably will too. But let me ask, do you do it on the individual tracks? (that's a lot of inserts), or on your final mix?
ive been doing it on every different track, never really done it with just one eq on the final mix. need to check this out to see if theres a major difference. cause these eq's are rinsing up cpu that could be used for better things.
Re: "Cut everything below 30hz for more headroom"
Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:51 pm
by tecshaun
I do it on the master, usually the mastering engineer would take care of that though.
The reason I don't specifically just cut -30 on each individual track is cause one, it's more processing, and two it introduces phase shifting from the eq on every track, rather then just once.
my 2 cents...
Re: "Cut everything below 30hz for more headroom"
Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:39 pm
by Sonika
I've done it on some/haven't done it on others. I usually only do it on my sub, not my master. I tested it out in my school's studio and I found that it really doesn't make a huge difference - some people say that if you don't highpass around 30hz, it makes the mix sound sort of muddy, but I don't hear it. Then again, it could be different on a big system.
Re: "Cut everything below 30hz for more headroom"
Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:42 pm
by VirtualMark
Personally i'd say its better to treat each and every track separately. The reason being that its generally better to have lots of plugins doing a small amount as opposed to one plugin on the master doing everything.
With things like hi hats, cymbals etc, they can be high passed much higher than a snare drum or mid bass patch. These things should really have zero sub bass content. I also usually high pass the reverb, as reverb doesn't work with bass too well.
Below 100hz should ideally be mostly clutter free so that the sub and kick drum have plenty of room. A sub is often just a sine, and as such will have no low frequency content below its fundamental. And a lot of people roll off a kick drum to get it to fit with the sub. So doing it this way, there shouldn't really be anything below 30.
Re: "Cut everything below 30hz for more headroom"
Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:43 pm
by societyloser1
All you dubheadz worry to much about mixing and shit, who gives a crap if you did highpass it or not?? Nobody will hear the difference!
There are too many peeps around here who worry to much about shit like this! Just know the ground rules about mixing and be creative!
So yeah, don't fuck around asking questions about mixing, just read the moneyshot thread and leave it with! Just let the music take you to places, don't fuck it up with technical stuff!
Re: "Cut everything below 30hz for more headroom"
Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:45 pm
by Sonika
societyloser1 wrote:All you dubheadz worry to much about mixing and shit, who gives a crap if you did highpass it or not?? Nobody will hear the difference!
There are too many peeps around here who worry to much about shit like this! Just know the ground rules about mixing and be creative!
So yeah, don't fuck around asking questions about mixing, just read the moneyshot thread and leave it with! Just let the music take you to places, don't fuck it up with technical stuff!
It's not horrible to also try to improve our technical knowledge.
And yeah I like to roll off my kicks right around 80hz, sometimes even a bit higher.
Re: "Cut everything below 30hz for more headroom"
Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:51 pm
by societyloser1
Sonika wrote:societyloser1 wrote:All you dubheadz worry to much about mixing and shit, who gives a crap if you did highpass it or not?? Nobody will hear the difference!
There are too many peeps around here who worry to much about shit like this! Just know the ground rules about mixing and be creative!
So yeah, don't fuck around asking questions about mixing, just read the moneyshot thread and leave it with! Just let the music take you to places, don't fuck it up with technical stuff!
It's not horrible to also try to improve our technical knowledge.
And yeah I like to roll off my kicks right around 80hz, sometimes even a bit higher.
No, it isn't... I like to improve my technical knowledge too! But I think most of the people just worry to much about mixing... And it really gets in the way of your creativity! I've been there... And fuck, it get's in the way!
Like you say... Rolling of your kicks around 80hz doesn't really make sense! It just depends all the time, don't take rules like that for granted... Because most of the times the power of your kick just sits around 80 hz and lower. Why cut if off? Just try a new sample or pitch it up a little!
(Not that I don't cut off my kicks, but every one takes rules like this for granted and that just limits your creativity... Don't think about stuff like that, just fuck around and find out what sounds best!)
Re: "Cut everything below 30hz for more headroom"
Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:56 pm
by Sonika
societyloser1 wrote:Sonika wrote:societyloser1 wrote:All you dubheadz worry to much about mixing and shit, who gives a crap if you did highpass it or not?? Nobody will hear the difference!
There are too many peeps around here who worry to much about shit like this! Just know the ground rules about mixing and be creative!
So yeah, don't fuck around asking questions about mixing, just read the moneyshot thread and leave it with! Just let the music take you to places, don't fuck it up with technical stuff!
It's not horrible to also try to improve our technical knowledge.
And yeah I like to roll off my kicks right around 80hz, sometimes even a bit higher.
No, it isn't... I like to improve my technical knowledge too! But I think most of the people just worry to much about mixing... And it really gets in the way of your creativity! I've been there... And fuck, it get's in the way!
Like you say... Rolling of your kicks around 80hz doesn't really make sense! It just depends all the time, don't take rules like that for granted... Because most of the times the power of your kick just sits around 80 hz and lower. Why cut if off? Just try a new sample or pitch it up a little!
(Not that I don't cut off my kicks, but every one takes rules like this for granted and that just limits your creativity... Don't think about stuff like that, just fuck around and find out what sounds best!)
Yeah but "fucking around to find what sounds best" sounds a lot better if you know what you're doing. It doesn't limit your creativity, it helps you move your creativity into musical terms through your interface.
And I don't always roll them off there, but I like to a lot in order to leave space for my sub
Re: "Cut everything below 30hz for more headroom"
Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:08 pm
by societyloser1
Nah, it's better that you don't really know what you're doing!
I think we know to much... Really! I want to unlearn so many things, and I'm doing it right now!
And my tunes are so much better right now, just because I don't worry about things like subs sitting in the place of my kickdrum and shit... I just go with the flow!
And okay, it's a bonus I know stuff like this, because even I don't give a fuck about my mixdown anymore... My tunes still sound mixed pretty good, because I'm used to mix my tunes!
But Really, I don't give a crap anymore about rolling off, compression to get that right punchy kickdrum, frequencies clashing, stereo imaging and stuff like that!
But okay, stupid discussion... My point is (and this one is to you, dear readers) don't worry TOO much about mixing related shit and just make your tune! Let your creativity flow and don't stop for a minute to eq that snare a little bit to give it a little bit more punch... It's really not worth it and you will forget about the direction your tune is heading!!
And yes, I get if you don't agree with what I say, but just think about it a minute! And try it out... Maybe you like it, maybe you don't!
Re: "Cut everything below 30hz for more headroom"
Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:16 pm
by atticuh
ketamine wrote:True?
Question: Should we do it on each individual track, or once, on the final Stereo-Out?
If you must insist, do it on an individual track, but definitely not on the master bus. You may not always notice an audible difference, but if you have a spectrum analyzer open, you'll definitely notice (sometimes subtle) changes in the location and amplitude of peaks. This CAN deteriorate a sound or ENHANCE it depending on the nature of the cut you're making. ;P
Re: "Cut everything below 30hz for more headroom"
Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:42 pm
by e-motion
societyloser1 wrote:Nah, it's better that you don't really know what you're doing!
I think we know to much... Really! I want to unlearn so many things, and I'm doing it right now!
And my tunes are so much better right now, just because I don't worry about things like subs sitting in the place of my kickdrum and shit... I just go with the flow!
And okay, it's a bonus I know stuff like this, because even I don't give a fuck about my mixdown anymore... My tunes still sound mixed pretty good, because I'm used to mix my tunes!
But Really, I don't give a crap anymore about rolling off, compression to get that right punchy kickdrum, frequencies clashing, stereo imaging and stuff like that!
But okay, stupid discussion... My point is (and this one is to you, dear readers) don't worry TOO much about mixing related shit and just make your tune! Let your creativity flow and don't stop for a minute to eq that snare a little bit to give it a little bit more punch... It's really not worth it and you will forget about the direction your tune is heading!!
And yes, I get if you don't agree with what I say, but just think about it a minute! And try it out... Maybe you like it, maybe you don't!
Agreed, this is why I mix last.
Re: "Cut everything below 30hz for more headroom"
Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:54 pm
by Sonika
e-motion wrote:societyloser1 wrote:Nah, it's better that you don't really know what you're doing!
I think we know to much... Really! I want to unlearn so many things, and I'm doing it right now!
And my tunes are so much better right now, just because I don't worry about things like subs sitting in the place of my kickdrum and shit... I just go with the flow!
And okay, it's a bonus I know stuff like this, because even I don't give a fuck about my mixdown anymore... My tunes still sound mixed pretty good, because I'm used to mix my tunes!
But Really, I don't give a crap anymore about rolling off, compression to get that right punchy kickdrum, frequencies clashing, stereo imaging and stuff like that!
But okay, stupid discussion... My point is (and this one is to you, dear readers) don't worry TOO much about mixing related shit and just make your tune! Let your creativity flow and don't stop for a minute to eq that snare a little bit to give it a little bit more punch... It's really not worth it and you will forget about the direction your tune is heading!!
And yes, I get if you don't agree with what I say, but just think about it a minute! And try it out... Maybe you like it, maybe you don't!
Agreed, this is why I mix last.
THIS. don't let the mix get in the way of creativity, but once you've done sound design/layout, THEN mix.
Re: "Cut everything below 30hz for more headroom"
Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:53 pm
by wormcode
I don't think there should be anything you automatically do in every track. It should vary from tune to tune and sound to sound. I generally do roll off extremely low frequencies here and there, but not cut. Too much cutting will dullen a tune, some things should have too much bass, or too much highs. Like when you cut the bass on a big synth or pad to make room, even if it's not audible, it can easily kill the presence of the sound. Precise engineering is nice to hear from an engineering point of view, but when listening as a music lover, to me it sometimes borders on lifeless and robotic.
Re: "Cut everything below 30hz for more headroom"
Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:26 pm
by nowaysj
If you are going to do this kind of thing, do it on every channel that needs it, and go as high as you can retaining the character of the sound. Do it with a gentle filter, ie 12db/oct or less. As far as rolling off the master, for little home mastering sure, if you are releasing, save it for the ME.