Tight sub bass

[MaZa1]

How is it done? I have no idea, so can anyone tell me that.
I have these mid bass-synths and i have cutted everything under 100hz away and added sub bass under that. But the sub sounds so damn loose, like the track is a package without the sub, and the sub is just laying lazy under the rest of the track.
But when i kicked the sub away and boosted the low end of the synths and used multiband comp, it came much warmer and sounds better, but does it have enough bass when done like that?

Please help me i really got stuck in this...

For the sub I'm using 3xosc with 1 osc on sine wave.

[Zetaofficial]

Aight so first off if you have headphones that aren't monitors (even a lot of monitors apply) you won't feel the sub because the headphones don't have the air for one or the power to move vibration like a speaker and thats all a sub is with a tone attatched. If not than try this:
Throw a simple sine wave into your synth. In massive this is called Sine-Square.
Once in the OSC1 make sure the WT-Position is all the way to sine. Now set the pitch of OSC1 to -12 and dont put on a filter if u want just a flat huge sub. THere is a way to self OSC the sub to boost it higher but its not nessecary. Now turn the volume up to full and also go into ENV4 and turn the level all the way up to make one flat boooooooooooovvvv

ANd make sure you boost the volume of the sub in the channel or sequencer. Don't boost the frequency. If anything cut off anything above 130HZ leave that extra 30 so that the sub translates to most speakers and headphones. What people consider bass by ear is 40Hz-150HZ but the Oomph of your kick will die down around the 100hz mark so make sure to slope the roll off on your quick. Just make sure that all eqs you put on the kick snare and sub are smooth slopes. a steeper slope on the sub though around 100hz and make sure it slopes down to 130-140hz before its off. If this doesnt help you let me know I will send you a few sub presets I made awhile ago.

[Zetaofficial]

WOw didnt see you were using 3oscx. Hmm another program you can use for sub is harmless. PM me if you need help

[e-motion]

If it sounds better without the sub (and you have a good sound system to judge that), well, throw that sub away! Some midrange basses have natural bassweight.

[MaZa1]

Well i have massive too but my computer is so slow that i cant use like more than 1 or 2 at the same time
I have headphones that play those low freqs ( or atleast try ) but i have been listening the track with subwoofers cos i know my headphones wont play those low freqs. And rest of the mix is kinda tight package but the sub is just running loose..

I have eq'd so that my kick is peaking round 100hz and started to roll off from round 70hz and sub has been low passed round 50 or 60hz, i followed that Legend4rys tutorial here, so thats one reason i didnt hear the sub when i listened with small earplugs

And i'm really conserned that the sub drowns my kick if i have freqs higher than 50-60hz so i really need help with this

And i inserted a freq analyzer to the mid bass and it doesnt have that much of those low freqs, 40-60hz so im worried that it sounds bassy with my headphones, but when listened with subwoofer it looses its power because of that...

So i need help and wanna hear what ppl here are thinking about these things.. thanks and sry

[Samuel_L_Damnson]

Just a sine should be fine, It dosent matter what synth you are using as long as you cut all your other stuff around 100-80hz ish, some people cut below 30hz as well to create a tiny amount of head room but I like to keep that in (because I hardly notice a change). I just use sine waves and I think it sounds the best, the cleanest most bassy sound you can get. Some people like to add harmonics to their sub by using tape compression or light types of distortion (which might be worth trying out) but I find that on bigger speakers it loses weight. Also this distance tutorial is worth a look :



Also I just noticed that this may not awnswer your question fully but still...

[MaZa1]

Yea i have cutted everything under round 100hz from all the tracks but kick and sub so there should be room for sub.
I have noticed and readed that the sine wave is best for pure sub bass so thats why im using it, but for me it sounds like its all over the low end so it sounds big, but still not that powerfull. It is shaking the speaker but not so that it can be noticed that it is really there booming.

[Samuel_L_Damnson]

I cant see how its being invasive and "all over the low end" in the mix when its just one fundamental frequency. perhaps its yo speakers (how many watts are they rated for and what is the cone size?).
Maybe you could upload a clip at some point and we can see what you mean

[Mammoth]

I had this problem too.
With midrange basses I'd HPF em at 100hz roughly but the 100-200 hz area can sound pretty muddy
just my 2 cents
try high passing the midrange even a little more
100-200hzis where I want kicks and snares to hit not basslines

[MaZa1]

Im trying to say that the sub is weak compared to the rest of the mix. It shakes the subwoofers but doesnt make the subwoofers to shake the car ( for example).

With the midrange basses i usually cut everything under round 100hz and have a little cut at 200-300hz to brighten it up a bit and it gives room for snare to have that "punch".

[MaZa1]

I changed the eq setttings and now its sounds ( on my headphones) that the sub is much powerfull now...

Heres the wip i struggled with, does the sub come out enough

Soundcloud

[__________]

if you're interested, this is how the sub is mixed in a tune I did with Cessman, which absolutely kills it on a system:

3osc (one sine wave) -> tube/tape saturation -> limiter @ -12dB ish
kick @ -10dB ish
snare bus @ -8dB ish

I'm starting to learn that its not hard to get sub bass sounding big, tight and punchy. The hard part is getting that big sub to fit with the other elements of the tune. If you've tried everything and you still can't get it sounding fat, you should think about changing your kick/snare/mid bass in order to make it all fit together.
Sub shouldn't need to be filtered or EQ'd. A low frequency sine wave at high amplitude will sound big on any decent sound system. I suggest you look at the other elements of your tune which may be eating up headroom or making the track sound weak.
The sub in that clip you posted doesn't sound prominent enough to my ears. What kind of level is it at in relation to the other parts of the mixdown?

[Mammoth]

Uhh are you saying 3xosc or are you actually using 3 oscillators in 3xosc for sub
generally I stick with 1 but it mighta just been a typo

[mikeyp]

just mess with the gain structure man. there's really no magic secret to making a pure sine even subbier. if you increase its gain it's gonna be bigger, simple as that. if you ever think it's something else it's just your ears tricking you, might be other high end bass that's making the sub itself sound bigger. this is probably why the sub sounds bigger in your midrange patch, since i'm assuming you don't have a pure sine in that sound there's probably a lot hitting between your sub freq and the midrange (like 100-200hz)

[MaZa1]

What vst's would u recommend for the saturation and limiting?
The kick peaks at -8d, snare peaks at -10db, sub is -12 db

[__________]

Uhh are you saying 3xosc or are you actually using 3 oscillators in 3xosc for sub
generally I stick with 1 but it mighta just been a typo

3osc vsti with one sine wave

What vst's would u recommend for the saturation and limiting?

anything, honestly. try a load and see what you like the sound of. I'd rather not mention the vst I use

make sure your sub notes are hitting at the same volume too. I do this on the piano roll rather than with a limiter because I personally think: the less processing going on the better.

[Samuel_L_Damnson]

the less processing going on the better.