Out of tune oscillators, music theory?

[VirtualMark]

I've noticed with several synth patches, that the oscillators are sometimes miles out of tune. For example, i play a G, and one of the oscillators is so far out of tune its actually playing a B a couple of octaves higher. I've noticed this on loads of patches, when i make a synth patch i tend to stay pretty boring and keep the notes either an octave above, or one of the notes in a minor scale. Its still something i struggle with tho, i've made patches before and played them in a tune, and they sound wrong because of one oscillator, or maybe a filter resonance that's out of key.

An example, i make a tune in G minor, and make a patch. Suppose i tune one osc up a fifth, so i play G and it'd also play D, which is ok for G minor. But if i play A, the other osc will be playing E which doesn't fit, and will probably clash with some of the other sounds. But A# would be ok, as it'd be playing F which is in G minor. So what i tend to do is write down what notes i can play to keep it in the scale. I don't play any instruments, so struggle with the music side of things. I'm learning theory slowly, but find it more interesting just making tunes.

Anyhow, i'd like to know how some of you more musically minded people go about tuning oscillators and writing within scales. Do you choose a scale and stick to it? And when you make patches do you worry about where you're upper harmonics are going to be tuned to? Or do you just make something that sounds good, then fit other notes in around it?

[bigdaveo11]

+1

[drake89]

well don't worry too much about the key, but it is good that you are thinking about it. just think in context of the song. if the particular patch that has 5ths programed into it it could sound fine if it's the only thing that you're playing. if there's some other insturments going on in your song, then the 5ths might clash or might not. That's the main reason that I don't mess with making chords within the oscilators, it's something I'd rather do with polyphony or multiple patches. Just think that when you're harmonizing with your melody, you can get away with non chord tones sounding good because the intervals are nice. That could be a reason to keep with your 'chord' patches . A patch with an oscillator tuned +/- 6st would sound errie I bet .

[Eat Bass]

i always wonder this myself. im usually scared to tune anything other than +/- 12 semi tones aka an octave. unless im making a reese or a hoover or something but..

[3za]

Do you choose a scale and stick to it?

I don't normally pick a scale to begin with, but my hands often gravitate to certain scales that I like to play/write in. After I got something I will realise/work out what notes/scale I'm using, and I write stuff based around that, but I feel free to use notes outside of that temporally, or to modulate to a different key.

Read up on accidentals, and key signature changes.

And when you make patches do you worry about where you're upper harmonics are going to be tuned to?

Well I normally keep them in-tune, unless I'm making some of that noise/ambient/shit I make then idc. I sometimes like to make patchs, with 5ths, or major/minor triads, just for the effect you get by doing so.

Or do you just make something that sounds good, then fit other notes in around it?

This I just use my ears, and some of the music theory I learnt, and not forgotten subconsciously slips in.




Listen to that

[AxeD]

i always wonder this myself. im usually scared to tune anything other than +/- 12 semi tones aka an octave. unless im making a reese or a hoover or something but..

Hm? Usually going up 3, 5, 7 etc.. semitones should sound good/harmonic.

[Eat Bass]

i always wonder this myself. im usually scared to tune anything other than +/- 12 semi tones aka an octave. unless im making a reese or a hoover or something but..

Hm? Usually going up 3, 5, 7 etc.. semitones should sound good/harmonic.

like i said im ignorant on what works and what doesnt so im just usually a little weary...

[VirtualMark]

Thanks for the replies. I have read about accidentals before but don't really use them, i suppose i should study them more. I always worry about it being out of key and clashing. And me not noticing, which is the problem. I haven't yet got the ears for it, i can't always tell if something is in key. So i always carefully stick to scales, but the problem with that is that i feel my melodies are a bit boring.

One thing i have noticed is some songs use the ascending and descending minor scale, which gives an extra few notes. Anyone writing tunes like that?

[mitchAUS]

I have read about accidentals before but don't really use them, i suppose i should study them more.

B is a major 3rd above G, thats why it sounds good. If we take G major we get the notes : G A B C D E F# G

Therefore if you have a synth tuned to play the fundamental and a major 3rd above and you played G the synth would play G and B... and both theses notes are in the G major scale so it definitely works. The same applies when you play C (as E is in the scale) and D (as F# is in the scale). However if you play A, B, E, or F you will notice a major 3rd above these doesn't fall within the scale. Thats not to say it won't work though, you just have to understand that these are accidentals.

Traditionally a lot of orchestrations have had sections playing 3 or 4 semitones apart (i.e. minor and major 3rds apart). It can be heard plenty in brass orchestrations. Major or minor tunings are going to give a distinct "happy" or "sad" tunings. A safe way to start experimenting with tunings is to tune to a perfect interval. You said you have experimented with octave tunings, try tuning up 5 or 7 semitones.

Also note that you can add octaves to theses tunings e.g. you could take a perfect 5th tuning (7 semitones) and tune it to 19 semitones for a similar sound but with higher harmonics.

[Killamike49]

I put a saw-type osc at like +31semitones or something like that, if i'm making a filthy sound that is. It gives it alot of bite and sounds, well, filthy. Haha. If i do have it offset to some weird note i usually do it an octave or 3 above the meat of the sound.
And what do you mean ascending and descending? They wouldn't be any different unless you were using melodic minor.... I think. Haha.

[e-motion]

Usually, if you play a minor scale with one OSC at 0st and another at +7st, even the ones that are out of tune won't sound that bad.

But yeah, all my patches are completly tuned (+0, +12, etc.). LFO on the pitch may be dangerous so I make efforts to control it well. Another thing is Massive Scream Filter, with high resonances, the Scream changes the pitch of the sound. The bad thing is that, even if you tune the scream to sound well with the note being played, if you change the note it will sound bad. What I usually do in this case is play a single note (for example E), play another synth at E and tune the Scream patch until it's an E. Then I bounce to audio and load it in a sampler, so I can play other notes and they're still in tune.

As for the processs, all my tracks are on minor. I tend to switch key while making the drop, to the one that makes my synths sound better.

[blinx]

My 2 cents.

I keep it stupid simple, bass OSC's play @ 0, +/-12, +/-24. UNLESS its a reese than OSC will get detuned +/- .20

I prefer to use chords and such with my pads and leads instead.

[narcissus]

i rarely use those kind of 'tuned' patches, even if they can interesting at times.. i just usually end up wanting to change BOTH (or all three, whatever) of the notes at certain points, and not have them play a set interval, which means automating the tuning for the oscillator. which usually means tuning by hand, which is all very well and good, but more trouble than simply doing a polyphonic sound and writing in two notes (or making two instances of the same monophonic patch and have them play in unison)

[YourDad]

If you want to play it safe, stay to an octave in difference

[howiegroove]

I typically like to stay away from dissonance in my patches, so I will typically stay in octave increments. However, there is nothing wrong with creating an oscillator that goes up a fifth at low levels to get my frequency spectrum to fill in a little bit more. However, I would highly suggest that this isn't done heavily. it something that should be used sparingly, like other effects. Used correctly, it can thicken up your sound a bunch.

For those that like to add a fifth to their synth patches, I ask why not just write it in via midi?

[mitchAUS]

I typically like to stay away from dissonance in my patches, so I will typically stay in octave increments. However, there is nothing wrong with creating an oscillator that goes up a fifth at low levels to get my frequency spectrum to fill in a little bit more. However, I would highly suggest that this isn't done heavily. it something that should be used sparingly, like other effects. Used correctly, it can thicken up your sound a bunch.

For those that like to add a fifth to their synth patches, I ask why not just write it in via midi?

Well what if you want to filter that oscillator that is tuned a fifth up differently to the oscillator playing the fundamental, or you want to only distort it, or use a different wave form. That could be overkill to do with midi (do-able though. Assign velocity to filter cut off, or distortion amount or whatever u want) I guess you could use a different channel with a separate synth playing each oscillator but that sounds like overkill too. Just depends what context your using the sound for. If its jus t a synth stab then why not tune it to whatever you want. If its something more melodic maybe other options could be considered. Just depends really

[cheshirebeats]

Harmonies in basses are rarely used. Unless you're working with octaves.
I guarantee you that most people aren't carrying basslines with two oscillators tuned a fifth apart or something - it will sound really weird when you play other notes because it creates strange harmonies. You have to remember that you're just tuning it an amount of semitones in an oscillator (not like a perfect fifth or something), so its not going to stay in key, and you will get weird sounding shit. You can use them but generally they'll sound best on only a few notes for each song because of this.

Accidentals are important. You don't need them but they can add some flavour for sure. Music is more often based around a chord progression or certain harmonies now than a key, at least today. Work within your chords more than your key, but compose your chord progression within your key. This will probably yield better basslines. Put the most important notes of your bassline on strong beats - i.e. a big kick or snare, and then you can make the spaces in between more interesting with non-chord notes, accidentals, portamentos, or whatever.