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http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/ap ... en-sarkozy

Looks like the socialist chappies getting in (meaning an end to the franco-german alliance in Europe), but the worrying thing- 1 in 5 voted for the National Front.

Dark days for Europe...

Dark days... but our dysfunctional government is officially going down soon

hutyluty wrote: the worrying thing- 1 in 5 voted for the National Front.

Last time this happened, it pissed off Laurent Garnier so much that he did a new mix CD. Every cloud...

Looks like the socialist chappies getting in (meaning an end to the franco-german alliance in Europe)

wouldn't be so sure about that: http://www.spiegel.de/international/eur ... 73,00.html

also sarkozy hasnt lost yet, he will probably benefit of the National Front vote for the second turn...

I hope he wins, he'll probably smash it as well

dfaultuzr wrote:

Looks like the socialist chappies getting in (meaning an end to the franco-german alliance in Europe)

wouldn't be so sure about that: http://www.spiegel.de/international/eur ... 73,00.html

also sarkozy hasnt lost yet, he will probably benefit of the National Front vote for the second turn...

that's not certain, i think a good amount of National Front voters will not vote in the second round. I hope so to. Could not stand five more years of Sarkozy. Hollande could be a very good president.
Now what frightens me is I think if Sarkozy loses, his party (UMP) will probably collapse, and I'm pretty sure half of it could join Marine Le Pen in a new far-right force. Yesterday night Le Pen was already saying she was thinking of changing her party's name after the election, founding a new force. and that's very scary for the future

exfox wrote:Now what frightens me is I think if Sarkozy loses, his party (UMP) will probably collapse, and I'm pretty sure half of it could join Marine Le Pen in a new far-right force.

This. Also, even if National Front doesnt become the main right wing party...if you thought Sarkozy was bad, wait til Cope takes over whatever's left of UMP.

Another thing to bear in mind is there are legislative elections in like one month...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the National Front do really well in the 2002 first round election, mainly down to students voting far right to piss off their parents?

They did very well in 2002 (like every other elections tbh, every year people are trying to act surprised but they always get a nice amount of votes anyway) and as to why, I really doubt it was students trying to piss off their parents, don't know where you got that from

Everyone come and live in Belgium. Happy country where no matter who you vote for the system will always be stuck, and it's nice like that

sirjonnyp wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the National Front do really well in the 2002 first round election, mainly down to students voting far right to piss off their parents?

its a bit more complicated than that:

-first "regular" right-wing is being more and more liberal in one hand (as opposed to traditional Gaullist right wing, which was radically different than what right wing is in anglo saxon countries) but also more and more populist in the other hand (using immigration and security as issues to secure less wealthy people's votes), which reinforces the National Front's positions
-left-wing parties dontreally play the "defenders of the oppressed" role anymore, which leaves room for the National Front to do that through anti-europe, anti-financial market, anti-immigration (they tuk our jerbs!) ideas

This would be the main reasons why National Front's been steadily growing in france for the last 20 years imo

dfaultuzr wrote: -left-wing parties dontreally play the "defenders of the oppressed" role anymore, which leaves room for the National Front to do that through anti-europe, anti-financial market, anti-immigration (they tuk our jerbs!) ideas

This is going to happen in Britain too I think. We have no left wing party at all anymore (at least France has Melenchon) so who do the working class have to turn to when things get rubbish but the far right? (and UKIP- polling up there with the Lib Dems atm).

All it would take would be a British version of Marine le Pen and the BNP would be getting 10% easily i reckon. Luckily, our far right seems intent on destroying itself whenever it even builds up a head of steam (and first past the post means theyll never get near government).

AND THIS ONE FOR MY FRENCH MANDEM

Rönin wrote:


AND THIS ONE FOR MY FRENCH MANDEM

I live in the red zone.
(the results in Lille are better though: Hollande 35%, Sarkozy 21%, Melenchon 15%, Le Pen 13%)

also

Rönin wrote:Everyone come and live in Belgium. Happy country where no matter who you vote for the system will always be stuck, and it's nice like that

i'm considering doing that after my studies ahah. I attended Hollande's meeting in Lille last week and your Prime Minister was there, seemed like a good chap.

dfaultuzr wrote:

exfox wrote:Now what frightens me is I think if Sarkozy loses, his party (UMP) will probably collapse, and I'm pretty sure half of it could join Marine Le Pen in a new far-right force.

This. Also, even if National Front doesnt become the main right wing party...if you thought Sarkozy was bad, wait til Cope takes over whatever's left of UMP.

Another thing to bear in mind is there are legislative elections in like one month...

definitely. Copé is probably the person I hate most in UMP at the moment. The most arrogant politician in France, too. I feel like killing somebody anytime I see him. Dark days ahead.

exfox wrote:

Rönin wrote:Everyone come and live in Belgium. Happy country where no matter who you vote for the system will always be stuck, and it's nice like that

i'm considering doing that after my studies ahah. I attended Hollande's meeting in Lille last week and your Prime Minister was there, seemed like a good chap.

Haha yeah he does his job well. Not quite a good look for a prime minister who isn't a party leader anymore to openly show his support to a socialist movement abroad while we still have A LOT of work over here though. But seriously, Belgium is a nice place. We do drink a lot of beer though, took my french flatmate a few months to get used to it

hold tight french massive
one more week having to stand sarkozy's ever farther right speeches

hutyluty wrote: This is going to happen in Britain too I think. We have no left wing party at all anymore (at least France has Melenchon) so who do the working class have to turn to when things get rubbish but the far right? (and UKIP- polling up there with the Lib Dems atm).

All it would take would be a British version of Marine le Pen and the BNP would be getting 10% easily i reckon. Luckily, our far right seems intent on destroying itself whenever it even builds up a head of steam (and first past the post means theyll never get near government).

It's a concern in the UK. Since the mid 70's we've been able to trace ypouthful disaffection manifesting in opposition to the government, so under nominally left wing governments (Wilson Callaghan Blair and Brown) we witnessed the emergence of the far right as a force, the NF mainly under Tyndall? in the 70's and the BNP under Griffen in the 00's. During the Thatcher years we had a pretty significant shift to left wing ideas albeit fractured across a pretty sectarian radical left reminiscent of the scene from the Life of Brian.

It's two years into a right wing government and I'm not seeing the shift to the left. Like there's protest there with the occupy movement but there's no coherence politically. It could allow the right wing to occupy that void. You're right they may not get close to government but what they can do is help frame a debate that allows a very right wing government to implement even more reactionary politics.

Haven't been following the race too closely. So is this guy a legitimate socialist that's for putting the workers in control of the means of production or just a pussy liberal that calls himself a socialist?

scspkr99 wrote:

hutyluty wrote: This is going to happen in Britain too I think. We have no left wing party at all anymore (at least France has Melenchon) so who do the working class have to turn to when things get rubbish but the far right? (and UKIP- polling up there with the Lib Dems atm).

All it would take would be a British version of Marine le Pen and the BNP would be getting 10% easily i reckon. Luckily, our far right seems intent on destroying itself whenever it even builds up a head of steam (and first past the post means theyll never get near government).

It's a concern in the UK. Since the mid 70's we've been able to trace ypouthful disaffection manifesting in opposition to the government, so under nominally left wing governments (Wilson Callaghan Blair and Brown) we witnessed the emergence of the far right as a force, the NF mainly under Tyndall? in the 70's and the BNP under Griffen in the 00's. During the Thatcher years we had a pretty significant shift to left wing ideas albeit fractured across a pretty sectarian radical left reminiscent of the scene from the Life of Brian.

It's two years into a right wing government and I'm not seeing the shift to the left. Like there's protest there with the occupy movement but there's no coherence politically. It could allow the right wing to occupy that void. You're right they may not get close to government but what they can do is help frame a debate that allows a very right wing government to implement even more reactionary politics.

Labour don't need to move to the left at the moment. With Thatcher (mainly due to the falklands?), she was able to hold on to power for ages, whereas it looks like Cameron will only last one term unless they pull something off. So yeah, definitely a big chance for the BNP to move in.

The thing with France is, they have a left wing alternative in Melenchon, but le Pen still managed to get 2 times his votes. People have been calling it a protest vote, anti-system, whatever, it's still worrying so many went far-right rather than the traditional protest parties..

SCope13 wrote: just a pussy liberal that calls himself a socialist?

deffo a pussy liberal, he'd be making plans to massacre the bourgeois in the streets by now if he was a real socialist.

massive party here in lille yesterday to celebrate hollande's victory. feels so good