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Ok so I've been really into recording "delicate" things like the gentle crunch of a leaf, the slow rich texture of a Popsicle stick breaking, basically things that have a low volume. The problem is that the Signal to Noise ratio on alot of the more affordable portable recorders is to high to get a clear recording of these. So I've heard that the smaller the mic capsule is the higher the S/N ratio will be? Anyways i was thinking of taking the Tascam DR-05 which is preatty cheap, and has an external mic input, and buying two condensor mic capsules to use with it via the extension in jack. Does anyone have any suggestions for the capsules i should use? I have seen several people build diy microphones and there seems to be inconsistancy in their circuit diagrams. I'm assuming i wont just be able to attatch these to a wire and plug them in? This is the simplest circuit diagram I've been able to find. Also, am i better off just buying an external mic to go into the recorder?

The noise isn't that bad. If you want, you can clean it up pretty damn well with software. Then again, I'm a big fan of noise, and still use tape specifically for that, or apply my own noise later... so maybe I'm not noticing it as much.

But if you're going to buy condensers for this, why waste money on the recorder? Why not just go right into an audio interface? Or spend the extra money on something like iZotope RX. If going for the recorder, maybe check out the H4 series which allow for true XLR/TRS inputs rather than minijacks which will need converters. Also might want to check the DR-05 MKii which is newer and might have better S/N ratio.

hmm thats true. i was thinking i was going to be out in nature doing this but by the time you factor in wind, birds etc the noise floor would be irrelevant. izotope rx is good, but adobe audition is much better imo for removing noise. but the thing is that it really degrades from the sample.

quick question for you. ive been fooling around with recording things to cassette tape to get that analog distortion (since analog cant clip) and i was thinking about buying a reel to reel recorder. will i be benefiting from this? or will the result be the same?

Have you used a dr-05 before? I haven't had that big a problem with noise. Honestly I'd expect a large diaphragm condenser too pick up more unwanted background stuff. Position is everything with these handhelds, you've got to use your body as a sound damper sometimes and get things as close to the mics as possible without touching them. and even the cheapest ones have different settings for different situations.

dubesteppe wrote:hmm thats true. i was thinking i was going to be out in nature doing this but by the time you factor in wind, birds etc the noise floor would be irrelevant. izotope rx is good, but adobe audition is much better imo for removing noise. but the thing is that it really degrades from the sample.

quick question for you. ive been fooling around with recording things to cassette tape to get that analog distortion (since analog cant clip) and i was thinking about buying a reel to reel recorder. will i be benefiting from this? or will the result be the same?

Yeah, I meant tape reels, like 1/4" tape recorded @ 15ips. Cassette sounds much different, but interesting for an odd 90s sound. I have a few reel to reels, but good quality starter ones would be something like Akai M8/Roberts 770 (same unit sold in different markets). TEAC & Ampex are some of the better models, but get pricey quick. The only other factors are sourcing tape, which is around, but it gets more expensive every year. Also maintenance on the unit which can be a hassle.

For a lot of the sounds, you could bring the materials back to your room and record it with less noise too. Obviously can't bring them all, but leaves, small things breaking etc you can. That's what I do. The best recorder with the absolute lowest noise I've used are the ones from Nagra, and the Sony PCM model but price jumps up a good deal.

God, the idea of doing field recording with a reel-to-reel makes me anxious and queasy at the same time.

Another option I've been mulling in this vein is a portable cassette recorder with pitch control - I think you could probably get some very, very interesting results with that. Marantz makes 'em, and then there's the old Sony Walkman WM-D6C if you can find one... kind of coveted these days.

Mini-Disc is always viable too if you're OK with a little noise & added compression.

dubesteppe wrote:So I've heard that the smaller the mic capsule is the higher the S/N ratio will be?

No

dubesteppe wrote:Anyways i was thinking of taking the Tascam DR-05 which is preatty cheap, and has an external mic input, and buying two condensor mic capsules to use with it via the extension in jack. Does anyone have any suggestions for the capsules i should use? I have seen several people build diy microphones and there seems to be inconsistancy in their circuit diagrams. I'm assuming i wont just be able to attatch these to a wire and plug them in?

I've build several of these PIP-based (plug-in-power) mics and used them with the 3.5mm input of the H1. These capsules are electret condensers, not the 'real' condensers. Most common are the panasonic wm61a's. Very flat frequency response and a decent SNR. Imo these beat the build in mics of these cheap recorders. I've recorded the airport ambience that I posted in the exchange thread, using these caps pip-powered by the H1

This will show you how it's done: https://pantherfile.uwm.edu/type/www/au ... ounts.html

If you know atleast the basics of electronics then then google the linkwitz mod for the wm61a's

If you want to take it even further then you can also make some P48 balanced XLR outputs, also in comnination with the linkwitz mod. You will ofcourse need a recorder or interface with xlr inputs that provides phantom power.

For my latest builds, including my dummy head, i've used the Primo EM158's with the balanced XLR outs with P48. I posted about this DIY thread here (around half way in): http://dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=174106

alphacat wrote:God, the idea of doing field recording with a reel-to-reel makes me anxious and queasy at the same time.

Another option I've been mulling in this vein is a portable cassette recorder with pitch control - I think you could probably get some very, very interesting results with that. Marantz makes 'em, and then there's the old Sony Walkman WM-D6C if you can find one... kind of coveted these days.

Mini-Disc is always viable too if you're OK with a little noise & added compression.

I love minidisc too, and DAT. Still have an old Sony DAT laying around I bought after D-Bridge was going off about it when he first got one for BCUK haha. Actually most reel to reels for field use are portable, small units. About the size of a laptop or smaller. I actually have one of those James Bond ones from the 60s that can be disguised as a pack of smokes lol. The tape is small though and I can't find any more that fits so it's just a novelty now unfortunately.

Forgot to mention that using external pip mics with devices like the H1 or the mentioned DR-05 means you'll still be stuck with their noisy preamps, so high gain = high noise level. But it's still a step up from the build in mics imo and if you take the time to experiment with different gain settings and know which work best for certain stuff then you'll get some great material.

DrastikMeazures wrote: Honestly I'd expect a large diaphragm condenser too pick up more unwanted background stuff.

Ideally i would be in my garage so there would be very little background noise.

wormcode wrote: The best recorder with the absolute lowest noise I've used are the ones from Nagra, and the Sony PCM model but price jumps up a good deal.

the sony pcm -m10 looks good for its price

alphacat wrote:God, the idea of doing field recording with a reel-to-reel makes me anxious and queasy at the same time.

I saw a video of Amon Tobin at the zoo with a reel to reel recording lions growl. hahahaha

Project EX wrote:
For my latest builds, including my dummy head, i've used the Primo EM158's with the balanced XLR outs with P48. I posted about this DIY thread here (around half way in): http://dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=174106

This seems like the best option for me right now. I have a Saffire 6 audio interface that i could just plug the xlr cable into. If I wanted to get a really high quality capsule with a really good S/N what would you recomend?

Can't go wrong with the 158 imo.
Keep in mind all the capsules I mentioned are omni

Project EX wrote:Can't go wrong with the 158 imo.
Keep in mind all the capsules I mentioned are omni

I've been thinking that hooking one of these mics up to my phone might be a better option. It seems simple enough. Do you think one could just get a Gigaware Microphone and Track Control and just swap out the built in mic for the panasonic/em158 ?




Also you could just get a 3.5 mm male 4 pole conductor jack (TRRS) to RCA adapter and cut the RCA connectors off and just attach the mic to it.

So by doing these methods I guess stereo recording won't be possible?


Sorry for all the questions, I've tried researching it but my knowledge of all the electrical stuff is very little. My neighbor is an electrical engineer so when it comes to putting it all together im sure he would be able to help.

Also would using a dynamic microphone in this case be better since it needs no power?
For doing field recordings would you recommend UNI-directional mics apposed to OMNI-directional ones?

'tape is my haven


for portable recording i really believe in cheap walkmans. microcassette recorders (with two recording speeds if possible or something with a pitch-wheel), and if you have them the cheaper portable reel to reels. I happen to have quite a few of each type of tape machine/recorder and I have to say microcassette has been the one I have enjoyed the most, followed by 1/4inch reel to reel. 1 inch is to clean and not big enough for proper trad. tape compression (still lovely and use it often on background vocals or doubles), 1/4-1/2 really gets my goat for its effect both the dynamic and the perceptual.

i have a separate room in the studio for just tape stuff. lol.


as for the question about mics above: i prefer all sorts of shitty mics that use to come with consumer reel to reels back in the day, they are super goofy looking and have a really boxy sound that i like. if you want clarity you need a proper wind wool and a nice omni or shotgun depending on what you were mic'ing and for what purpose (sound design, spatiality, soundscape, etc.)

I would really just try whatever you have on you hands, you'll find the accidents in the recordings to be the coolest.

dubesteppe wrote:I've been thinking that hooking one of these mics up to my phone might be a better option. It seems simple enough. Do you think one could just get a Gigaware Microphone and Track Control and just swap out the built in mic for the panasonic/em158?

Not sure, I haven't done anything like this. But I assume you can if the headphone out can also act like an input and the internal mics gets bypassed.

dubesteppe wrote:Also you could just get a 3.5 mm male 4 pole conductor jack (TRRS) to RCA adapter and cut the RCA connectors off and just attach the mic to it. So by doing these methods I guess stereo recording won't be possible?

No need for a 4 pole jack, a standard 3.5mm TRS will do and is enough for 2 caps/stereo. Not sure if this is also true with the linkwitz mod though. The first one I build was just some earbuds, I just replaced the speakers with the caps.

dubesteppe wrote:Also would using a dynamic microphone in this case be better since it needs no power?

Dynamic mics aren't suited for field/SFX recording.

dubesteppe wrote:For doing field recordings would you recommend UNI-directional mics apposed to OMNI-directional ones?

Well that really depends on what you want to record and where you want to record it. For ambience you can either go omni or cardioid in XY or wide/spatial kinda thing, but if you're recording for instance a metal garbage can smash and there are any other sounds around then you won't be able to isolate the smash using a omni. Shotguns are they way to go for this kind of thing. If it's a very quiet enviroment you could go with a cardioid and place your setup in a way that the unwanted sounds are off axis.

i would be using this on my mobile phone (android) which does not have a dedicated mic input jack. a 4 pole trrs cable is required because this is the only way to use an external mic with it. if you look at the jack diagram ↓↓↓ you will see that you are only given two poles to attach the mic to.

Jack Diagram:
1 2 3 4 ______
< = = =|______|-------> Cable

1 Tip --> Left Channel
2 First Ring --> Right Channel
3 Second Ring --> Ground
4 Sleeve --> Microphone

so if i were to buy something like this ↓↓↓ and plug a stereo microphone into it would the two signals just get summed into a mono signal?

Specifications:

3.5mm, 4 conductor iPhone style plug (male TRRS connector)
2ea. 3.5mm female stereo jack- one for audio and one for voice
Length: 6 inches

No idea what the mic+ on the 4 pole plug means as i'm no expert in electronics. Both the 61a (unmodded) and the 158 have 2 connections, hot and earth. The hot signals would go left and right and both earth go to ground with a 3 pole plug.

No idea about the other cable, sorry.

you can get convertors for those recorders, i have one that i use a portable phantom power supply with and shitty converters
ideally get one with an xlr connection
results of using a decent condenser doing field recordings and getting run over by a car (still sounds fine)

EX: no problem. thanks for all your help. If i make any progress on it ill be sure to post it in this thread

Deadly: hahahahahaha. thats crazy! was it recording when it happened?

If you decide to build the P48 XLR circuit and run into trouble feel free to shoot me a PM

dubesteppe wrote:EX: no problem. thanks for all your help. If i make any progress on it ill be sure to post it in this thread

Deadly: hahahahahaha. thats crazy! was it recording when it happened?

haha nah it fell out of my bag when i was coming back from a field recording session
unfortunately it fell in a road and i didn't notice it was missing till it got ran over a few times