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I use a limiter on all my channels | Discuss
Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:56 am
by elefaze
So yeah, I use a limiter on all my channels to keep my levels organized. I don't make it so it crushes (more on this below), though, I make it so that - for instance a lead synth with a ceiling of -12 stays below -12. How I do this is I put the limiter on the channel, and push the gain up on the limiter until it starts giving me gain reduction because I pushed it too far.
On my drums though, I absolutely limit the living fuck out of them to make it so their loud, although I keep in mind my headroom -for instance a kick drum at -10db- I would set the ceiling (-10db, like I did above) and push the gain so it gets crushed. This is the only way I know how to achieve this loudness on my kick and snare.
Link to my latest song:
Soundcloud
Please let me know how my mix is, I haven't heard of anyone using a limiter on every channel before and may be "doing it wrong", but my ears tell me otherwise... just let me know what you think.
Re: I use a limiter on all my channels | Discuss
Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:17 am
by 3za
I sometimes use a limiter on channels with lots of movement, just to catch some of the really crazy peaks. I wouldn't use one on every channel as I like/want dynamics in my music.
It's very loud, had to turn my volume down. But for this sort of thing, thats the sort of sound you want.
Also very clean sounding, but thats what I think your going for??? I think it would sound better with some more dirty to it.
Re: I use a limiter on all my channels | Discuss
Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:23 am
by elefaze
3za wrote:I sometimes use a limiter on channels with lots of movement, just to catch some of the really crazy peaks. I wouldn't use one on every channel as I like/want dynamics in my music.
It's very loud, had to turn my volume down. But for this sort of thing, thats the sort of sound you want.
Also very clean sounding, but thats what I think your going for??? I think it would sound better with some more dirty to it.
thanks for the response! am i destroying dynamics by using a limiter even when turning it down so there is absolutely no gain reduction? i like dynamics too. (i compressed the master with ozone real quick just for demonstration... on second thought probably should have not done that)
also, dont really know what you mean by more dirty haha
.
Re: I use a limiter on all my channels | Discuss
Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:28 am
by Sharmaji
LOTS of modern music is mixed like this, w/ automation to create dynamics.
You may want to consider some different routings so that you have a way out if the whole mix is too limited... you can easily reach a point where you try to do some minor thing-- de-ess the vocals or cut the shrillness out of a lead-- and it's either too much or not enough, because there's so much dynamic control early in the chains, and thus so much voltage in the channels.
for the last year or so, i've been routing my drums to a bus that's heavily parallel-comp'd and limited, but then also sending elements (kick, snare, etc) to a bus with no compression so that they can pop out if need be. can work well for guitars, vocals, etc too-- basically a simple escape hatch for overly-compressed mix
Re: I use a limiter on all my channels | Discuss
Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:45 am
by billybuxton
I never use limiters, im still not 100% on what they do
But learning how to use them is on my 2 do list, because i know they help get that "BIG" sound
Re: I use a limiter on all my channels | Discuss
Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:58 am
by nowaysj
3za wrote:I wouldn't use one on every channel as I like/want dynamics in my music.
bahh! Come on man, 0-3db's of limiting is not going to kill your dynamics.
Newbs should be paying more attention to limiters than compressors, imo. Limiters are very easy to use, and very easy to hear, can get good easy results quickly. Comps are weird, do a lot of different things, can be really subtle.
Re: I use a limiter on all my channels | Discuss
Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 9:22 am
by NinjaEdit
I'm surprised you're not getting flamed. Try switching off the limiter to see if it was really needed.
Newbs should be paying more attention to limiters than compressors, imo. Limiters are very easy to use, and very easy to hear, can get good easy results quickly. Comps are weird, do a lot of different things, can be really subtle.
I was of the view that flexibility and subtlety were a good thing. Limiters can sound bad easily, and it is always easier to add more compression later than remove it.
also, dont really know what you mean by more dirty haha .
Sometimes people actually like technically undesirable sounds, like distortion and bitcrushing.
Re: I use a limiter on all my channels | Discuss
Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 9:32 am
by wub
Okay, number of different points I've read and picked up on around about this, so I'll do the quote and review thing from my own POV. First one is a
TranceAddict thread on Limiting the master;
I would strongly recommend against doing this. Placing a limiter on the master outs is something that should be done at absolute final mastering step, after your mixdown is complete. Remember, that if your mixdown is done properly, the final master stage should only consist of pumping up the volume of the track by 1-3 dB at MOST and adding a tiny bit of sparkle. It should NOT be used to fix a poor mixdown. I've made plenty of tracks that sounded just fine at mixdown and needed only 1-2 Db of increase at the mastering stage because the mixdown was done properly in the first place.
It is actually advantageous to NOT having the limiter on during mixdown because you want to see if you have any stray peaks that clip the master out and try to fix those. If everything fits together properly, then you shouldn't have any massive peaks. Things like that generally indicate a terrible frequency overlap or a particular sound that needs to be tamed with a compressor on the individual channel.
In many cases, trying to mix your track through a limiter plugin is going to lead to an overcompressed final product, which is generally not desirable. In addition, you probably do not want to be trying to mix through anything that colours the sound (as many mastering limiters do) lest it impair your ability to make sound judgements about the mixdown.
Trust me, if you get the right sounds, in the right place from the beginning, mastering becomes a very simple exercise. Make it sound good BEFORE you master.
Agree with this to a point, however it's a trade off of squashed dynamics vs. perceived 'volume' of the track. Limiters will push the volume up to the ceiling, but you may loose some definition to the elements of the track.
(Home Recording has a
similar thread to the TA one, from a different point of view)
There is a GearSlutz thread which is exactly this question;
Limiter On Every Track -
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/newbie-a ... racks.html
General consensus is no, however you need to think about what sort of music you're mixing. If there is no perception to one's own ears, then why worry? The issues may arise depending on the soundsystem you're playing back on, but if you're mixing for your home rig and laptop earphones around the world, is this really an issue?
If you want to get further techy and do a bit of background reading to understand more what a limiter does, this Rane thread is pretty on point;
Limiters Unlimited -
http://www.rane.com/note127.html
Re: I use a limiter on all my channels | Discuss
Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:35 am
by AxeD
The gear can't mix your tunes.
Re: I use a limiter on all my channels | Discuss
Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:42 am
by jrisreal
If it's just to catch radical peaks, then I don't see much of a problem
Re: I use a limiter on all my channels | Discuss
Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:46 am
by AxeD
In that case, just put it on groups or the master. It'll probably go on the master anyway.
Re: I use a limiter on all my channels | Discuss
Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:49 am
by wub
FL for a while had the Default template as loading with a Limiter already on the Master...it's still tucked away as a template on the most recent release AFAIK.
Re: I use a limiter on all my channels | Discuss
Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:09 am
by NinjaEdit
I think it's still the default.
Re: I use a limiter on all my channels | Discuss
Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:20 am
by Maxxan
Yeah FL has a Limiter on by default. I always turn it off though. Not that my levels usually go that high but I find that if I'm mixing with a limiter on and for some reason do hit it and then turn it off it sounds unbalanced. Like posted before I'd rather catch my peaks before that, so it's really not needed imo.
Anyway, I think usually you don't need to. Sometimes with heavy automations on EQ:s (growls etc) you can get spikes at certain settings and frequencies, I guess a limiter on that channel is good for that. But for more traditional sounds, synths and drums etc, I don't see why or how you'd get peaks like that that even need limiting.
Although by that reasoning limiting won't hurt you either, unless it's too much but it doesn't sound like you're limiting that hard.
Re: I use a limiter on all my channels | Discuss
Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:06 pm
by jrisreal
Listened to that tune and left a comment. everything sounds nicely done
Re: I use a limiter on all my channels | Discuss
Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:27 pm
by Dystinkt
sounds decent mix wise, for that style dynamics arent really vital and you can get away with limiting things to buggery. Knife Party do that and their mixes are never bad for what they are. My only gripe with that tune is the sounds are too clean, dirty them up a bit!
Re: I use a limiter on all my channels | Discuss
Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:42 pm
by Kit Fysto
I think the downfall here is your snare. Although this is more of a matter of opinion probably, it has no snap now from being overly limited (or at least that is what it sounds like)
Re: I use a limiter on all my channels | Discuss
Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:49 pm
by Genevieve
jonahmann wrote:I was of the view that flexibility and subtlety were a good thing. Limiters can sound bad easily, and it is always easier to add more compression later than remove it.
Sure, but compression is one thing to 'know' but another thing to 'get'. When you're using a limiter, you're hearing the most 'extreme' form of compression, so you'll know what you have to look for. Once you have an ear for limiting, you'll have a much easier time grasping 'compression'. Newbies at production just don't have a sopisticated enough ear yet when they're starting out to actually be ABLE to pick up those subtleties.
And I know this is a really cheesy and typical thing to say but.. 'good' or 'bad' are still subjective judgements and if someone can make something awesome by making it direct and in your face then more power to them!
Re: I use a limiter on all my channels | Discuss
Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 5:34 pm
by press
works great for some peoples sound, Excision mentioned to me that he would mix that way...that was a good four years ago now though so who knows if he still does.
im just not comfortable doing it on my tunes...i do mix into a limiter on the master pretty often though so go figure. lol
Re: I use a limiter on all my channels | Discuss
Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:04 pm
by Mammoth
I really like those bells in the intro!
I have to agree with 3za though.. Usually it's best to only limit tracks with a lot of movement and crazy peaks