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Ok, I'm not saying this is what I believe, I was just curious as to what think about it.

So, if you were to take an experienced producer who didn't grow up learning an instrument and music theory, and an experienced producer who did, do you think the producer without the music theory knowledge would be better at composing melodies? I'm just thinking - maybe someone who has studied music theory their whole life would tend to be limited to only making what 'works' musically rather than what sounds good. What do you think??

There is a difference between breaking the rules and being ignorant of them.

Yeah I know, but if somebody has studied theory their entire life, they may feel like they can only stick to anything that works musically. I'm not saying it's true, just putting it out as a possiblility.

I don't think so. I'm well schooled in music theory, and I don't pick a scale and stick to it. I think it's less trained guys who do that.

ljk32 wrote:someone who has studied music theory their whole life would tend to be limited to only making what 'works' musically rather than what sounds good.

Assuming the two are inclusive of one another, of course.


I think a lot people who have musical training can be quite snobby about it in terms of electronic music production, looking down on and deriding others who maybe aren't "schooled"...then again, there are some folk to whom the classical training allows them to break down barriers in terms of accessibility.

wub wrote:

ljk32 wrote:someone who has studied music theory their whole life would tend to be limited to only making what 'works' musically rather than what sounds good.

Assuming the two are inclusive of one another, of course.


I think a lot people who have musical training can be quite snobby about it in terms of electronic music production, looking down on and deriding others who maybe aren't "schooled"...then again, there are some folk to whom the classical training allows them to break down barriers in terms of accessibility.

Yeah, I also based this on seeing some musically trained people telling others the 'right' way to do things.

ljk32 wrote:Ok, I'm not saying this is what I believe, I was just curious as to what think about it.

So, if you were to take an experienced producer who didn't grow up learning an instrument and music theory, and an experienced producer who did, do you think the producer without the music theory knowledge would be better at composing melodies? I'm just thinking - maybe someone who has studied music theory their whole life would tend to be limited to only making what 'works' musically rather than what sounds good. What do you think??

I think you are missing the point.... being trained or not doesn't help with the conception of ideas.

I promote knowledge and training because I believe it helps get the ideas people have, out faster and truer to the original concept. However, I have never said (nor people I know) that training in theory, performance, etc actually helps create ideas... let alone the quality of ideas.

jonahmann wrote:I don't think so. I'm well schooled in music theory, and I don't pick a scale and stick to it. I think it's less trained guys who do that.

I'm untrained in music theory and I stick to scales - would be interested to know how you approach not sticking to scales... Any links for reading appreciated.

I just find a note that I like, then the next note that I like, and so on until I have enough. Then I figure out a rhythm and play it in.

jonahmann wrote:I just find a note that I like, then the next note that I like, and so on until I have enough.

That's a scale.

Yeah Id say that someone who has learnt music all their life, would know enough about music, to just make anythign that sounds good, its only really the people who have just started learning music theory that think you have to stick to a scale for it to sound right.

Me however, I started and then couldnt be arsed to learn so I just do what I think sounds right (or wrong depending on what your going for)

as a person of reasonable training, (grade 6 piano, folk violin etc) i would agree with the OP.
just in terms of statistics, the best musicians IMHO are almost always completely self taught, can't read music, don't really know what a scale is escept as to what sounds good. training is in some sense lazyness, the desire to not have to re-invent the wheel (perhaps in a better shape).
but its basic psychology, anyone who has invested time and effort and money in something isn't going to entertain the idea it might have been completely counter productive (except myself of course).

kidkunjer wrote: just in terms of statistics, the best musicians IMHO are almost always completely self taught, can't read music, don't really know what a scale is escept as to what sounds good. training is in some sense lazyness, the desire to not have to re-invent the wheel (perhaps in a better shape).

Sorry - but this is absolute crap. What statistics - care to share?

Training is laziness?



You have no idea what you are talking about.

I think that someone with education in music theory would be that much better in making and producing music. That person would understand what works and be more efficient in creating things that 'don't work' (according to the laws of music theory.) I think it would be awesome to have a real understanding of music theory as a basis to producing music.

13 AD wrote:(according to the laws of music theory.)

There aren't any "Laws of Music Theory"...

This type of misunderstanding is why so many people think that having a musical education somehow "confines" creativity. Sure = for instance, just because the key of C Major has no sharps or flats doesn't mean you can't use any sharps or flats.

Take for instance - the 1st Mvt of the Haydn C Major Cello Concerto... just on the first page ALONE, there 15 or so F#s, as well as a G#... and that isn't even during the development section, where there tend to be lots of modulations...

I know it's not music...but I went to graduate school for a masters of fine arts in creative writing...I was sure it would be soul crushing having to "study theory and practice"...everything I learned only made the creative process easier. Hell, it's even translated to music production as far as process goes.

How can you break the rules if you don't know, or understand them, in the first place ?

bibbyj wrote:How can you break the rules if you don't know, or understand them, in the first place ?

The exact same way you'd break a law without knowing it.

Mad EP wrote: Sorry - but this is absolute crap. What statistics - care to share?

sorry, perhaps a bad choice of words, what I meant to say was that the correlation is statistical in nature as opposed to necessary causal. I didn't mean to say I conducted a study on the subject, I've just noticed anecdotally that the vast majority of MY favourite musicians were untrained in any form.

Mad EP wrote: Training is laziness?

It depends on your perspective; if you are a person who believes some musical theory would help develop your creativity then to not pursue training might be laziness; but if you're the sort of person who wants training because you are too lazy to develop your own understanding of music and how it works, then learning about how others think about it wont help you be a better artist.

Mad EP wrote: You have no idea what you are talking about.

In one sense you're right. As a person pretty much trained in musical theory I can only guess at what it must be like to have not been. I can only go on my experience of meeting musicians I admire and reading about ones I can't meet.

On the other hand I only expressed an opinion, and as its mine I know exactly what I’m talking about.

Hold on, are some people in this thread actually suggesting it might be detrimental to learn music theory?