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I am new on this forum and this is my first post so.. HELLO WORLD !


Basically I am currently doing a remix of a grime track. I have the beat pretty much how i want it sounding and the mix sounding good, with each 'instrument' sitting in it's own part of the spectrum. The problem i'm having is when i layer the acapella over the top of it- The acapella goes well with the beat, but it just muddy's up pretty much the whole mix... causing things to lose their punch and sense of space, everything sounds jumbled.

I understand you have to compress, eq and cut vocals to get them to sit in the mix correctly and I have done a fair amount of research on muddy vocals, including searching through some posts on here. and what most people tell you is that you need to compress the vocals appropriately (which i have done) and then EQ them accordingly (or visa/versa), getting rid of any problems freq's etc.. This all makes sense.

I follow these rules- firstly by compressing the vocals. I then cut everything below 175hz (this is where the lowest part of the vocals drops to). Still sounds muddy (which i would expect)... i then make quite sharp drop at around 458hz, this is where my snare is peaking. it still sounds muddy... i then make a gentle drop at around 2434hz as this is where the snappy part of the clap/ snare is sitting.. Still sounds muddy. . . to cut a long story short I went through the acapella trying to get rid of the clashing frequencies but just found myself completely over equing the vocals in an attempt give the 'instruments' more space, causing the acapella to lose it's depth and 'fullness'.

To put things simply, this is what i am not understanding.- The vocal takes up a large portion of the spectrum. and the beat also takes up a large portion if the spectrum (obviously). So how do you make the vocals sit in the mix, without losing the space and punchyness of the beat? it seems to me the only way is to cut important frequencies from the vocals.. which makes the vocals sound weak. Like when i listen to other tracks with vocals, the vocals AND the beat BOTH sound strong and clear, almost as if they are both using the same frequencies without them sounding muddy!? (which doesn't make any sense!!)


sorry if i explained this confusingly! and any feedback is much appreciated!!

Thanks,
L

You can try reactive EQ'ing.
Basically just making the vocals duck at certain frequencies when the drums hit.

Vocal riding.
/thread.

Leng wrote:I have the beat pretty much how i want it sounding and the mix sounding good, with each 'instrument' sitting in it's own part of the spectrum. The problem i'm having is when i layer the acapella over the top of it- The acapella goes well with the beat, but it just muddy's up pretty much the whole mix... causing things to lose their punch and sense of space, everything sounds jumbled.

You have your priorities mixed up.

For Pop/R&B/HipHop/Grime etc (Basically everything except Burially-Future Garage) don't fit the vocals around the music, you fit the music around the vocals.

Literally carve out EVERYTHING that interfears with the Vox: via panning, EQ (Mid/Side EQ is the best), ducking, etc. Your vocals are not "muddy'ing up the mix", your mix is muddy'ing up the Vox.

--

So go ahead & set everything up like you had it. Then place the Vox on top (still EQ, Comp, De-ess, etc), but then bend everythng around it so it stands out.

Also, watch this:

thanks for the replies


I see what you're saying and it makes sense.. but surely no matter what sounds i use for the beat, anything from around 200Hz upwards is going to clash with the vox... because the voxs are so mid/ high-dominant? So things like claps, snares and synths will all be fighting the vocals... like, if you play a solo'd vocal an look at it on a spec analyser it takes up sooo much freq.. so surely it's not viable to cut everything from the beat that is clashing with the vox freq range coz il be left with nothing but like a kick and sub?

like this for example: The mids and the highs can be heard on the beat and the vocal.. but neither are muddied up.. i dont understand how?

Leng wrote:thanks for the replies


I see what you're saying and it makes sense.. but surely no matter what sounds i use for the beat, anything from around 200Hz upwards is going to clash with the vox... because the voxs are so mid/ high-dominant? So things like claps, snares and synths will all be fighting the vocals... like, if you play a solo'd vocal an look at it on a spec analyser it takes up sooo much freq.. so surely it's not viable to cut everything from the beat that is clashing with the vox freq range coz il be left with nothing but like a kick and sub?

like this for example: The mids and the highs can be heard on the beat and the vocal.. but neither are muddied up.. i dont understand how?

It's all about the mix down - EQ and volume automations help to create and remove room where needed. It's quite possible to have a vocal and backing playing at the same time with both audible if you're prepared to take the time to mix them properly.

if it's a vox stem and they were already "mixed," start with leaving well enough alone.

mix it like this:

DRUMS!!!!!! VOX!! BASS. everything else.

Sharmaji wrote:if it's a vox stem and they were already "mixed," start with leaving well enough alone.

mix it like this:

DRUMS!!!!!! VOX!! BASS. everything else.

^ This. Seriously. Just do that. End Of.

It's vocals, just remove everything you don't hear from them and mix the tune aorund it.

Get rid of all frequencies you don't hear on the vocals. It helps to have the percussions/drums more stereoscopic. Try panning certain elements along with the usual EQ here and there. Compress the vocals once again. Like everyone else said, let the instruments work around the vocals.

okay thanks people !

I understand the principle of what you guys are saying with cuttings freq's and making space. But what im not getting is the fact the vocal uses so much of the spectrum, so on one word it could have dead sound at a certain freq but then on another word it would be filled.. does this mean i have to effectively automate the EQ parameters throughout the whole acapella?

Vocals have SO much junk, man. Straight up. You can cut a ton out and have it sounding good.

Maybe do it like this. Just cut out everything without it sounding shit like I mentioned before. Then mix the tune around it and THEN start cutting some more from the vocals. Also remember that it doesn't have to be ALL OR NOTHING. You can just lower the frequency without totally killing it.

i hear you mate thanks for the advice il give it a go!